Health Committee on Oct. 31st, 2006

[Penny Priddy, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Yes, because we do it with peanuts. People don't put peanuts in snacks for school any more at all, right? Thank you for answering that.

I have another question. I know you're here talking about type 1 diabetes. Do you know the difference between the research dollars for type 1 and type 2 diabetes? I know you do, but....

[Robert Hindle]

Last year's figures from CIHR themselves are $6.6 million for type 1 and $11.5 million for type 2.

[The Chair]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Batters, for five minutes.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

This is a very big pleasure for me to welcome everyone from JDRF to this committee. This is something we have been trying to accomplish for a while. I thank all committee members for agreeing to have this hour dedicated to this very important topic.

I'd like to start by giving you a little background for 30 seconds.

I met Chloe Rudichuk, obviously a very well-spoken young girl of 11, who is an excellent—as you are, Mitchell, as well—spokesperson for this very important cause. I was able to meet Chloe's parents, Jeff and Carla. We had a good discussion and this is what has come out of that. I'm very proud of you, Chloe, for persevering and coming to committee today.

I have two questions for you, Chloe, and then I'd like to ask Bob two questions. I only have five minutes.

Chloe, this is my first question. I wonder if you could tell me a little bit about the difference between type 1 and type 2 diabetes, because not everyone understands that. Type 2 diabetes can be the result later in life of poor eating habits or not enough exercise, but that's not the case with type 1 diabetes, is it?

[Chloe Rudichuk]

No. Type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune disorder than cannot be prevented by eating right or proper exercise. Type 2 diabetes can be prevented by proper exercise and eating habits.

With type 1 diabetes, after someone has been diagnosed they are then insulin-dependent for life and will have to take several different injections every day to keep them alive. With type 2 diabetes, you can control the disease more with proper exercise and eating habits.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Right. Thank you very much for that.

I spoke to your parents a little while ago. I understand that the cost for managing your type 1 or juvenile diabetes is about $400 a month. Does that sound about right?

[Chloe Rudichuk]

Yes.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Wow.

I'm going to focus on Chloe because I know Mr. Fletcher's focus is on you, Mitchell, as his constituent.

Chloe, what is the important message you'd like to leave with us, as parliamentarians, today?

[Chloe Rudichuk]

Just that it's hard to live with this disease, and with you helping us it'll help us a great deal to make that extra leap to finding a cure.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you so much again.

I'm going to focus on Bob in a second, but I want to thank you so much for coming to this committee. You're a very gutsy little girl.

Mitchell, thank you very much as well, and the other 44 individuals who came. You've made a strong case here today, and we hope to have a cure for you.

Bob, we've met before.

Hello, Josée.

Bob, I'd like to commend you as well. You have a little bit different message, but you're also a very gutsy individual, a transplant patient. This has been a very important cause for you for an awfully long time.

Bob, if JDRF were to get into a partnership with the Government of Canada, where would the $125 million go? What would the government and Canadians get for that investment? Simply, will it make a difference and will it make the cure for juvenile diabetes a mission possible?

[Robert Hindle]

The quick answer is yes.

Before I start, we'd like to thank the committee members. I would particularly like to thank Mr. Batters, publicly, for having arranged this opportunity.

What will happen with the $125 million? What will we get? Part of the answer is we don't know what we'll do with it. What we are asking for is a partnership that requires input from the federal government. We are asking the federal government to commit $125 million. JDRF does not intend to take that money and run away for five years and say “Give us a call and we'll tell you what we've got”. We would expect that JDRF will put JDRF research money into this. Together we will look at the next steps possible in Canada, resulting from the six, seven, or eight key research projects.

JDRF will fund the research to get to a cure for type 1 diabetes, whatever that has to be. We're saying, why not Canada? We will wrap ourselves in the flag, but for very good reasons. Our researchers have been leading the world for 85 years in type 1 research. There is every valid reason to believe that our researchers, with the appropriate funding in Canada, can complete this job. We can't do it alone in Canada. Don't forget the islet transplant results from Dr. Shapiro's Edmonton protocol. This will always be known as a key component of the cure for diabetes, no matter where it is finally found.

I repeat, why not in Canada? We have the track record. We have the research going on right now. Why not take advantage of what we have, the talent we have in Canada? Rather than simply handing us money to go into a black hole of research, why not adopt the JDRF plan? If I may use a quick analogy, we know that businesses have business plans—a three-year business plan, a five-year business plan. We have one for our fundraising; we have a five-year fundraiser plan. We also have a research business plan for where we go in response to various conditions. We would like to sit down and take the input of the Canadian government and analyze what's possible in Canada. We would like to add other research money to what JDRF is providing. This would allow us to put together the entire answer to what will result from the $125 million. To go one step past that, whatever costs it takes, JDRF will be a key component in finding a cure. And a cure will be found.

[The Chair]

Madame Demers.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Mr. Hindle and Ms. Goulet. Good afternoon, Chloe and Mitchell. Thank you very much for being here today. You are very courageous, and I find that very moving. Every time children come to the Hill, I am very moved. This is the second time children have come here, and your presence encourages us, your members of Parliament, to do the work you want us to do.

I know that unless and until research finds a cure for type 1 diabetes, there will have to be advances in treatment, and that is what is happening now. In Quebec, we have the Lantus, which is approved for patients and is on the list of covered drugs. I know that this is not the case elsewhere. Are you working to ensure that more effective treatments for children are made available in other provinces? I know that on some reserves, aboriginals do not have the right to this treatment, yet I was told this morning that if a child takes this medication, he does not have to get up in the middle of the night to test his blood sugar. It is healthier not to have to get up at night.

Chloe said that the strips cost $25 for 100, but I was told they cost a dollar each. I am not sure I understand. I know that it is very costly for parents of children with juvenile diabetes. I would like to know whether something else can be done while we wait for research to come up with a cure for this disease.

[Robert Hindle]

I hope I have time to answer all three parts of your question.

First of all, provincial governments are new territory for us. Alberta's health care system covers islet transplants and the Government of Ontario covers insulin pumps. That tells us we have more work to do at the provincial level. I cannot give a specific answer to your question, but we will be starting to give presentations at that level.

Second, to ensure that all aspects are covered, we will be focusing on private insurance companies. I am not an insurance expert, but I know that in general, when a federal or provincial system approves something new, private companies have a tendency to follow close behind.

Third, I have been hearing for a long time that by the time researchers make it 99% of the way to a cure, they have spent only 10% of the money needed because clinical trials are the most expensive part of the research. This is very frustrating. As I said at the beginning, it is like looking at something on the other side of a window and not knowing how to break that window to get it.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Mitchell said that type 1 diabetes has robbed him of his dreams. I think that by coming here today, Mitchell and Chloe, you are giving us back our dreams. I am sure that with the courage you have shown, you will find a way to achieve your dreams.

I really hope you do. Thank you.

[The Chair]

Thank you very much, Madam Demers. Those are very kind words, indeed.

We have one more questioner, and then we'll call this part of the meeting over.

Mrs. Davidson, you have five minutes.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd also like to say thank you very much to all of you for appearing before us today.

I was privileged this morning to have a meeting in my office with one of my constituents who is suffering from juvenile diabetes. Along with her were some other members of your group, one of them as young as two years old. It's not something that only affects those who are seven, eight, or nine; it can affect at any age, from what I'm being told.

I wanted to ask Chloe and Mitchell a question. Two of the girls who were in my office this morning were able to wear an insulin pump, and I think they felt this gave them a bit more mobility and freedom. Have either one of you thought about that? Is it an option for everybody, or just for some people? I know they're horribly expensive. And along that line, do either of you know whether any of these devices are covered under health insurance in any of the provinces?

[Chloe Rudichuk]

I have the option of using the pump. I've chosen not to because I tried doing an insulin needle through my stomach and it didn't go very well. That's how you get it through the pump. I've just chosen not to use it.

[Mitchell Burke]

It's the same over here, yes; it hurts too much in the stomach for me.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Okay. So for some people it works better than for others. Is that what you're saying?

[Chloe Rudichuk]

Yes, I think so.

[Mitchell Burke]

Yes.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

What about the cost of the pump?

[Robert Hindle]

I understand that generally it's about $7,000 to $8,000. I do apologize, because I did not have the opportunity to benefit from that technology, given my advanced age.

As for coverage for the cost of the pump, there is only Ontario, which this year admitted the cost of pumps for children under 18.

[Josée Goulet]

The supplies are quite expensive too.