Health Committee on Feb. 26th, 2007

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Yes, you mentioned children are not interested, future health, good food, children's exercising, social value to eating, and what is right in theory.

[Dr. Sandy Oliver]

They came from eight studies of children's views. The way we analyzed these is we assessed first of all the quality of the research methods employed in those studies, and then we always had two researchers working independently who would look at what the findings were in those studies--look through them, read them, reread them, code them for different concepts and try to understand how those concepts were linked, both within the studies and between the studies, and then build up a picture across all of the studies. When the researchers had done the work independently they then met to discuss what they'd worked at independently, find out how similar and how different they were, and then come to some agreement as to what they'd found.

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Carolyn Bennett]

Thanks very much.

Maybe we could go to Mr. Wallace, then back to Scott, and then to Pat.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I appreciate being here. My name is Mike Wallace. I'm not a regular member of this committee, but it's nice to have you here, and I appreciate your input that I've heard this morning.

I actually have two teenage daughters who are very competitive volleyball players, who are working out virtually every day of the week, so obesity is not really an issue in my household. But I do have an acquaintance, who is a constituent and a friend, who's doing post-graduate work on obesity in children. We have a debate on occasion, and I'm wondering whether you're able to give me the answer to this.

Both of my children have always made the school teams in whatever sports they're involved with. My friend's opinion is that if a child comes out to participate in a school activity, whether it's a school team or whatever, everybody should make the team, that skill is not necessarily the issue; it's the willingness to participate.

Do you know, for your country, what's happening in that area in terms of school teams and getting kids to participate at school in sports and other activities? If any of you could give me an overview of what's happening, I'd appreciate that.

[Prof. Roger Mackett]

It's not my expertise, but my understanding was that a number of years ago there was a trend towards non-competitive sports. I think we've moved back away from that position much more to the idea where children can compete, and it seems quite a good idea to give them some incentive to compete against one another. But we did have a phase where we went away from the idea of letting children compete, seeing that it could be bad for them in some sense.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Does anybody else wish to comment?

[Prof. Tom Sanders]

I think, unfortunately, in the United Kingdom sport has become a spectator activity, where people buy expensive clothing to sit on the sofa and watch it on television rather than participate in it.

[Dr. Jane Holdsworth]

My only contribution can be as a parent. I have two children aged 13 and 11, and certainly in the schools they go to, they're both encouraged to participate in teams and they have widespread involvement in teams. Whether or not that's representative of the country, I wouldn't like to comment.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Okay.

I have a transportation question that I talked about earlier. I've had the discussion with my local school board, which builds new schools. When they build a new school, busing is often used to get kids to school because of the distance they have to go. But they also build drop-off centres to encourage an interaction between the cars that go there with children, the buses, and those who are walked, so that there's no conflict. Can you tell me whether, from the transportation perspective, you're encouraging the facilities at educational institutions not to have the ability to drop kids off as easily as we have done here?

[Prof. Roger Mackett]

Certainly there is a big concern about the number of cars being used to take children to school. There are conflicts, because a lot of parents do want to drive their children to school, and many schools are taking initiatives to discourage dropping off near the school. It is a very difficult area, because obviously they're dropping them off, usually, on the street in a public place, so they can't generally be stopped. At the school my younger children go to, cars aren't allowed to be parked very close to the school. They've put down double yellow lines, which stops them from parking nearby. So there are all sorts of things, such as school travel plans, all sorts of incentives for schools to encourage parents to encourage children to walk to school, but it is a very difficult question.

[Dr. Sandy Oliver]

We have an arrangement at school lately, which they call “walk and stride”. Those parents who drive their children can use the local car park for free for a half an hour while they walk from the car park around the corner to the school, and that discourages the parking of cars on the narrow road but allows them to park safely in a car park.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Okay.

One final question, Madam Chair, is on a discussion that children at play often burn more calories just because they're out.

Could you give me an idea, for your country, whether kids are going to parks, or what are they doing? What facilities need to be created to encourage that activity?

[Prof. Roger Mackett]

It's not just a matter of creating facilities; it's encouraging parents to let them go out. The biggest problem in this country is parental concern about allowing children to go out and play. I think the big barrier is letting them go out, rather than the lack of facilities. There is a lot of concern about sexual abduction of children, which is, of course, a very rare activity for children, but people get very worried about it.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Carolyn Bennett]

Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Sanders, let me start. I think you just touched on the issue I want to touch on, which is parental concern. I have an issue with food labeling. I'll get to it in a moment, but first of all, when it comes to the promotion of healthy eating in schools, it's been more or less a case, as the expression goes, of “the stick instead of the carrot”, which is to say that we outlaw certain types of foods in the schools simply for reasons that are obvious: they're just not good for your health whatsoever. So we promote healthy living, but at the same time we provide the tools by which schools can say no to the more destructive foods.

At the same time, that rule does not apply when they go domestic, when they go back home. Ergo, when it comes to labelling, I don't think the private sector—certainly in the case of North America—is completely up front about what product they are selling and how they label. For instance, something that is low in fat is not necessarily good for you, as I'm sure we can all agree. A lot of the children on, say—as I think the description was—the lower end of the socio-economic demographic are displaying signs of obesity and in the later years of late onset diabetes. It's a huge problem, certainly, for the government and the health sector and for universal health care delivery.

That being said, I would like you to comment on where we are in the home. We know what we're doing in the school and we'd like to do a lot more. But where do you see the home front right now, when kids are returning and both parents, say, are working? It's harder for them to make healthy choices.

[Prof. Tom Sanders]

I think it's a very important point. Most food still in the U.K. is consumed in the home rather than at school. Children now are able to get very palatable food prepared very quickly in relatively large proportions. They can take a pizza out of the fridge, put it in the microwave, and eat it quite quickly.

I think one of the real difficulties is about loss of food skills amongst children, about knowing how to cook and prepare food. That makes them more dependent on ready-prepared food, which quite often tends to be sold in larger portions as easier to prepare. Particularly, people in low-income groups may also lack not only the skills but the facilities to prepare fresh food.

The other factor that is very important is not eating together. Eating together puts some food restraint on families, if you take time to eat together. We say families who eat together stay together. There is that as a factor, and it is quite important. If both parents are out at eating time and the child, who is what we call a latch-door child, comes home and is hungry, he or she will get what is convenient. On a low income, you're going to buy the best value you can get, so if it's “buy one, get one free”, it may well be a food that is relatively calorie-rich. That, potentially, is a problem.

How you address that to people on low incomes.... They actually are making the best use of their money, if they're short on income, but it's a question of what they're trading it off for in the rest of their lifestyle.

Portion sizing and food skills, I would say, are something one needs to inculcate in young people—actually how to prepare food and enjoy cooking.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

What do you think about the labelling aspect I touched on earlier? I throw this open to all members. In my own opinion, I think we've made some headway over the past five to ten years, but nonetheless, I don't think labelling is up to a standard of our being completely honest. We've come much further in the trans fats, but as in the example I gave earlier, low in fat doesn't necessarily mean we're talking about the wrong fats in question.

[Prof. Tom Sanders]

I would agree there. I think the issues about types of fat in the diet are mainly to do with cardiovascular risk rather than total calorie intake. Foods that are very high in fat are likely to be high in calories. It depends on the proportions that are consumed. I think there really is an issue about portion sizing. If there's one message I could get through, it is that certainly in ready-prepared food there needs to be clearer labelling on actually how many calories are provided in a proportion in relation to your needs. Particularly, if it's one thing you want to get across, you need to get it across clearly. Numerical presentation of the data may not be the best way of presenting that.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

To go back to your earlier example--your bag of chips, or crisps, as you call them--the labelling should be about the bag size and not any particular portion of crisps. Is that correct?

[Prof. Tom Sanders]

It's exactly the same as for alcohol labelling and whether you talk in units with alcohol. For example, if you take the comparable with alcohol, you can have spirits at a higher concentration or you can have beer, but it's the number of units of alcohol that matter.

[Dr. Jane Holdsworth]

If I could perhaps add on this one, I think we have over the last 50 years or so gone through something of a revolution on food. Going back 50 years ago, people were limited in terms of what they ate by the fact that they couldn't simply afford to buy food to put on the table. Now in the U.K. very few people are in a position where they can't afford to eat. Going forward, that's likely to be even less the case. I think we have to educate people to the point where they start to really think about the food they're eating.

I think one important thing for children in school is to learn about food labelling and how to read food. In the campaign that we've developed there are four steps that we're going through. First of all, we're trying to encourage people to know their food, to know what they're eating, and to think about what they're eating--not stress about it, just be aware and make an informed choice.

Second, we're trying to say to them, know your limits, know what a good diet looks like, and that's where I think GDAs are a very important concept.

Third, we're taking them to a point of doing something about it--making informed choices when they choose their food.

Fourth, they need to be active, which I think is always the other side of the coin.

For me, those are really important concepts.

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Carolyn Bennett]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chong, do you have a question? You were missed terribly last week in Whitehorse.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My first question concerns a recent announcement from your regulators, the Office of Communications, about its intention to ban advertising of certain food and beverage products that are high in fat, sugar, and salt during the times at which programs for children are being aired on television.

I really have two questions relating to that announcement. First, what has been the reaction of the food industry to that? Have they generally been cooperative or supportive of this? Are they reluctant to put in place that decision? What's been the reaction of stakeholder groups of the public at large?

The second question relating to this announcement is whether or not any of you are of the opinion that it will have any material impact on the eating habits of children.

[Dr. Jane Holdsworth]

I can perhaps respond to answer on the food industy's response to it.

The food industry worked very closely when the consultation was going on and worked consistently to look at ways that you could target interventions around advertising to children. I think the big disappointment for the food industry is the basis on which those interrelationships are being targeted, which is not proportional. There is a nutrient profiling model that is a 100-gram model, which is being devised by the Food Standards Agency, that determines which foods are classed as high in fat, salt, or sugar. The belief of the food industry is that it is not scientific, and there are many others from the academic world who have backed that view as well.

I think, firstly, the food industry is very willing to change. Many of the food companies here already don't target advertising to children under 12. I think there was a disappointment that at the last minute Ofcom directed its interventions to children up to the age of 16, when previously we'd always talked about children up to the age of 12.

On the question of whether the interventions will be effective, my belief is that most of the research we've seen has indicated that changing advertising practices to children has very little bearing on changing behaviour. But I think there is a willingness with the five food companies to make the changes that are necessary and not advertise during the children's viewing periods.