Health Committee on Aug. 28th, 2009

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

I'll start off with that and I'll pass it on to Dr. Butler-Jones.

Right at the very beginning of the pandemic plan we were working very closely with Mexico as well as the United States. In Mexico we provided assistance to the lab, which is why we were able to learn of H1N1 early on and start planning for it. In working with the United States as well as Mexico, we've been collaborating in a number of areas--the areas of research, information sharing--as we prepare for the fall.

In Geneva the three countries presented to the international community in terms of how Canada implemented its pandemic plan, how we developed it, and the implementation and pieces of it. The three countries were seen very much as leaders in pandemic planning as well as in responding to the pandemic plan, and our models have been shared with the international community to assist other countries that may need it, through PAHO for example, to assist the Caribbean communities to develop their plans. It really is in Canada's interest to ensure that these other countries are prepared to respond. Because we're dealing with a situation that does not see borders, it's an international issue. It was in our interest to ensure that we participated in that kind of planning.

We continue to do that to date, building capacity, training in Mexico. We've had discussions early on with the United States on border issues--for example, on whether we should restrict travel. That discussion needs to continue as we deal with the fall.

In terms of the officials, there are ongoing discussions with WHO. Dr. Gully has joined us from WHO, which will be very helpful to our implementation come the fall, as well. I'm very thankful he took on his role to assist us in that.

I'll ask Dr. Butler-Jones to elaborate on the work they do on a regular basis with the international community.

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

Just to supplement this briefly, as the minister alluded to, Canada was the first country to actually have a national pandemic plan, which many other countries then adapted for their use. As well there's been our work internationally in supporting other countries, both in training and in the development of their plans, etc.

The work that the government has done with GlaxoSmithKline, in partnership with the developing capacity in Canada, now actually has created additional capacity for the world in terms of a vaccine. Dr. Gully actually used to be my deputy chief medical officer, and then we sent him to the WHO to support WHO's efforts in pandemic planning. Now that the effort is well under way, they've sent him back, so we've taken advantage of that.

We could take a long time to talk about how we're involved in different countries. I think the minister has expressed some of the range very well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much, Dr. Butler-Jones.

We're now going to go into our second round of five minutes, questions and answers. Dr. Duncan and Dr. Bennett are going to share times. I believe Dr. Bennett is going to start.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

I'm just going to start by saying that I was remiss in not welcoming back Dr. Gully. We are thrilled that you're here to help on this hugely important file, particularly with first nations and Inuit. Thank you very much.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, officials, and I second that.

I'm really struggling. I'm struggling because I hear we want to stay the course, and in saying that, I think we've moved slowly on some issues. The reason I say this is that in the spring, when there was real trouble in Manitoba, we would have liked, Madam Minister, to see you go to those communities. I would have liked to see some attempt at slowing down the spread of the virus. We knew from Mexico that some communities were more at risk. We know about it in first nations communities, as was outlined today, but in the spring we knew, for those same reasons, that they were at risk.

I would like to know how long the average length of hospital stay was in first nations communities, if they went down to Winnipeg, and how long they were on respirators compared to people in the rest of Canada. That is my first question.

I will ask the second question as well. I would really like to see a spreadsheet by province showing the first nations and Inuit communities, how many have a plan, some idea of the extent of that plan, and who has seen it. Is it at the start, the middle, or is it finished? If they have a plan, has it been tested? Have they ordered supplies?

We have been to communities where they didn't even know that you could order supplies. They haven't started their plans. If they do have supplies, it's not good enough to get a box of supplies with no labels.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Duncan, it's a five-minute round. Could the minister answer those questions?

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Absolutely.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Minister Aglukkaq.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

There are a lot of questions in that.

There were some attempts to slow down H1N1 early on. As you know, we discovered H1N1 in April, four or five months ago. As we were dealing with H1N1 we were learning about H1N1, about who it was hitting. The international community was dealing with the same issues--what it is, how it's spread, why it's affecting. All of this information gathering has helped us to respond in terms of how to slow it down, such as washing your hands or coughing into your arm. Those are the things that we had communicated as well.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

May I interrupt, please, Minister?

We know from the WH report that where containment was tried, it did slow down the spread of the virus. I can provide the date of that report. We've made no attempt here in Canada. While that would have been difficult in Canada in the big cities, in widespread communities there was a possibility.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

We're running out of time, so could we let the minister please finish the questions?

Dr. Butler-Jones, would you like to answer?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

Yes, just quickly.

We know that early treatment clearly works. On the question of going beyond that, again, there are very mixed views on that. We're actually doing some potential research to better understand that and other uses of antivirals, for example. Clearly the distancing, etc., the kinds of things we've talked about in Canada, we do believe will work.

It's interesting; when it comes to things like banning mass gatherings, closing schools, etc., we have an actual experiment between Argentina and Chile. Argentina undertook it and Chile did not, and it made very little difference in terms of the outcome and numbers of people affected. So as we move through this, we're finding out more and more what actually is practical, what is reasonable, and what works. We're trying to apply that as we go along.

Part of the reason for the ongoing consultations and the broad involvement of expertise from both the science side and others...and next week's meeting will focus on the most severe cases: who is it, why is it, and what can we do to actually reduce that impact?

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Dr. Butler-Jones.

May I ask a question? Since this committee is supposed to have oversight over H1N1, are we welcome to attend next week's meeting?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

It's not a large group, but if a couple of members from the committee would like to attend, I'm sure we can facilitate that.

This is a much more formal thing, but as we did during the early part of the outbreak, I'm quite happy to host information sessions on a regular basis, sharing everything we know at any point, not just with the critics but with any member of the committee or other parliamentarians, should they wish.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you very much, Dr. Butler-Jones.

We'll now go to Mrs. Davidson....

Yes, Mr. Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

On a point of order, Mrs. Chair, I'm just wondering why it is we are having this meeting in this crowded room. I pity the poor media people. I've been looking at them, and they're having to use their knees instead of tables to do their work.

Why are we not in room 237-C?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

It wasn't available. I tried to get a bigger room. This is the room that was available.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I've just checked, and room 237-C is available.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Well, that's what I was told.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

It's very unfortunate. The media people are working in conditions that are unacceptable.

I'm wondering if you're trying to cut them off from reality here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

You know what? We have decided today....

You're new to the committee, and I thank you for coming today, but we're really trying to deal with the issue of H1N1. I asked the clerk to get the biggest room we could. Since you would like to hear it from somebody else, I will ask the clerk to give you the advice that I just told you.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you.

[Jean-François Lafleur, Procedural Clerk]

I will basically be giving you the same answer. The Library of Parliament's shop is using one of the two rooms and work was planned for the second room, when we checked. As a result, there was only one room left where we could hold a televised committee meeting, and that room was this one.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

That is extremely unfortunate.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Mrs. Davidson.