Health Committee on Sept. 28th, 2009

[Daniel Lavoie]

That is precisely the principle of the operations continuity plan. We can't have 40 plans for 40 possible problems. We have an overall approach. In the case of the H1N1 virus, in fact, should there be a pandemic, that problem was a possibility. And so we asked for a specific plan to deal with that. However, whether we are dealing with an earthquake, a power outage, an ice storm or a pandemic, the basic approach is the same and the planning in the departments is similar.

If at a given time, a certain number of people are sick, the demand for departments' or agencies' production will fall, and we will redirect the remaining resources to essential services. This also means that we may have to do some training. Before we get to that point, people have to understand that they may be reassigned to different work.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

When do you think all of this will be ready?

[Daniel Lavoie]

Our readiness increases with every passing day. No society in the world can say that it is totally ready to deal with such a situation. However, whenever a department does an exercise, it identifies or corrects weaknesses and is better prepared to deal with crises. That is the approach we advocate when we are preparing plans for the continuity of operations.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you very much.

Thanks to all of you for being here.

Mr. Lavoie, you are at the crux of the entire issue around pandemic possibilities in two ways. First, your department has the overall responsibility for emergency planning. Then you have the secondary responsibility of coordinating within the government. So I first want to get at the question of the country.

According to annex L, as the key person on that file you are supposed to have developed a national security policy pertaining to the possibility of an H1N1 pandemic. Can you table that policy for us?

[Daniel Lavoie]

I just want to clarify. The national security policy was issued by the government in 2004. What we have is a Government of Canada coordination contingency plan for avian and pandemic influenza. I can table that. It covers how the government--the machinery--will deal with specifically a pandemic or avian influenza. Don't forget that this was developed in the context of pandemic and avian influenza.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Have you revisited that document in the context of H1N1?

[Daniel Lavoie]

We are currently doing some adjustments. We have a work plan that focuses on the weaknesses we identified in the spring, and we are making improvements to it.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

There is supposed to be somewhere in government--I assume it's attached to your department in some way--a central command post for when this hits, if it does hit. Are you it, or is it the deputy minister of health who was suggested to be the command and control keeper?

[Daniel Lavoie]

What we have at the Department of Public Safety is the Government Operations Centre, and it was created by the national security policy in 2004.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Who is at the head of that?

[Daniel Lavoie]

It is the Minister of Public Safety.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Who is the top bureaucrat?

[Daniel Lavoie]

It's probably me.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

So it's not the Deputy Minister of Health, as we were told on August 12, 2009. The specific question at that time was not about the head of the health component, but the head of the entire command post.

[Daniel Lavoie]

If you make the scenario as bleak and as bad as possible--

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

I'm not making it bleak. I'm saying there's the possibility of a pandemic hitting this country very soon. We're all expecting that you would have come to this committee by now with a detailed set of plans, an updated set of procedures, and more clarity than we're getting from you today. We're trying to figure out who is in charge, how much money has been allocated to the operation, what happens in the event of 30% of the workforce being out, how much money are you--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, can we just stick to one or two questions and then have him answer them and then go to your others?

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

These are a series of questions that are coming now out of the frustration of not getting a concrete plan from Mr. Lavoie in terms of the seriousness of the issue. If it's going to hit, it could hit next month, so I'm trying to figure out--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I think your question was who's in charge.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

We don't know who is in charge anymore, even though we've had two answers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, could I just clarify. I'll give you the extra time. You had a series of questions that just went on. It seems to me what you want to find out is, in the worst case scenario, who would be in--

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Not in the worst case scenario. I would expect that if we're on the verge of a pandemic we will have an operation in government that is ready to go now, not in the worst case scenario. What is the plan if it hits tomorrow? That's what we all need to know. Who is in charge? Where is it located? Which deputy minister is involved? Which ministers are involved? How much money has been allocated to you? And what happens the minute this hits? Who calls the shots?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Mr. Lavoie.