Health Committee on Oct. 21st, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Who would like to...?

Ms. Elmslie.

[Kim Elmslie]

I'll answer that. Thanks.

We've known from research evidence and from the surveillance we do in the Public Health Agency of Canada that sodium reduction is an essential component of public health efforts to help keep the Canadian population healthy.

I have brought for you an in-depth report that we've completed in the agency, which I hope will serve as a reference for the committee. It's called Tracking Heart Disease and Stroke in Canada. It will point out to you very specifically what we've seen in growth in cardiovascular disease and how trends in hypertension have changed over time. That sodium is a problem and a health problem for us is well known. There's no doubt about that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Do you have extra copies of that? Did you bring them with you?

[Kim Elmslie]

I do; I have them here with me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

And are they in French and English?

[Kim Elmslie]

They are.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

We'll distribute them, if that's okay.

[Kim Elmslie]

Yes, that would be fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Would you like a copy, committee members?

Okay.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

For how long has Health Canada been working on sodium? For how long has it been studied?

[Samuel Godefroy]

This is not a recent problem, as was stated, but the issue has been raised to a much greater extent since 2007, and since the announcement from the health minister that a Sodium Working Group was going to be established. There has been extra impetus since 2007. That doesn't mean that no work was done on this previously. Furthermore, international organizations have highlighted this problem, but since 2007 work has sped up with the announcement of the working group and with the number of activities taking place related to data collection and greater stakeholder involvement.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Compared to other countries Canada was late in considering this issue. Even today the working group hasn't actually done anything concrete. You did give yourselves until 2012 to table a first progress report on sodium reduction.

If today, at the end of 2009, as nothing concrete has come out of this working group, how will you manage to prove in 2012 that there has been progress in the reduction of sodium consumption on the part of citizens?

[Samuel Godefroy]

There has been some progress but it is not a simple issue. We started more intensive efforts later than other countries, such as the United Kingdom which began in 2006. It should be pointed out however that sodium intake in Canada, currently, without our having yet implemented all the necessary reduction steps, is below the sodium intake currently recorded in the United Kingdom, after two years of reduction efforts there.

By studying previous experiences, for examples in countries such as the United Kingdom, we were able to observe that even the strategies originally developed were questioned because of the problems implementing them. Thus, the initial United Kingdom targets were continuously reviewed and corrected with an eye to their practicality.

The work that we are doing is essential work because an in-depth analysis has to be undertaken in order to define concrete reduction targets and, especially, to invest taxpayers' money in measures that will work.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Do you think that a reduction by approximately half in average sodium consumption by 2020 is a realistic and achievable target?

[Samuel Godefroy]

Based on the data that is currently available, it is possible, since we have seen efforts to reduce consumption elsewhere. I do not want to speculate on the future. We will have to wait and see how these efforts to reduce consumption can be implemented. If other committee members are interested, I will explain some of the complex aspects of the issue. The problem is not a simple one, but for now, we feel our objective is attainable.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

The labelling you referred to does not seem to be very effective at present, as there are a host of ways to indicate reduced quantities of salt. For example, we have the Health Check program, which is perhaps not well known enough and which may not be the standard the government wants to put forth.

How do you see labelling in the future so that consumers will be able to know exactly what has been done to reduce the amounts of salt in foods?

[Samuel Godefroy]

Labelling is not an end in and of itself; it is a tool but not a miracle solution. The main objective of labelling is to provide information, and setting up a panel on nutrition is already an important step. Furthermore, indicating amounts of sodium should be mandatory. In this case, recording the amount of sodium in a pre-packaged food is mandatory. That is an important aspect of enabling consumers to make a choice.

I fully agree with you: labelling, in and of itself, is not a miracle solution. Labelling must be combined with other tools. Health claims will make it possible to identify products where efforts have been made to reduce sodium content. That is another useful aspect of labelling.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we're going to have to go on to the next questioner.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thanks to all of you for being here.

I want to start by saying, with all due respect, that we as members of Parliament don't need, I think, detailed information about the harms of high sodium levels. We've been informed of them for some time and we had a fairly good discussion about it with the working group.

That meeting came about because in fact through the media we learned that this working group was hidden away somewhere in some basement, plodding along and not accomplishing anything. We're all here today with one purpose in mind, and that is to figure out when you're going to start with a plan of action that actually means something.

Why has this been kept in the dark for so long? Why now...? At the end of the last meeting we thought, good; at least they have a target: it's going to be 2,300. Now you're telling us 2,300 by the year 2016. My goodness! It is appalling that there isn't more of a strategy coming forward at this point.

I think the Globe and Mail said it all in the editorial on September 15:

With health care costs ever-climbing, governments have an extra incentive to do everything possible to prevent disease. Ottawa's leisurely approach to salt overuse is baffling.

That's a mild way of putting, I think, the concerns today.

Kim, you're a part of the Public Health Agency. I thought your job would be to push and prod Health Canada to come up with something. Since 2007 we've had a working group, and now, in 2009, two years after it got started, you're telling us that in 2010 we might kickstart a strategy that might get us to the upper levels by 2016. Canadians are far more advanced than you are, than this government is. They expect some leadership.

I guess my question, at least today, is: why can't you at least begin a major public education campaign? Canadians know the dangers of salt. We know that heart attack, high blood pressure, heart disease are directly related to excessive levels of sodium in salt. We know that it's costing our system $2 billion a year. And Canadians are prepared to do something. In fact, as you both noted, it's not at the home that the problem exists; it's in manufactured foods and in restaurant foods.

So why isn't there a public campaign to alert Canadians, not with more information about what happens, but how to do it, what to do, what you should be eating? Why isn't there some kind of voluntary program such as Britain has? Why didn't you, in 2007—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, I hate to interrupt you--

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

I know. I'm going to maybe use my seven minutes for ranting, because I'm really frustrated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Do you just want to have a rant?

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Okay, go right ahead.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

I think all the other questions have been “Where's the action?”, and we're not getting very far, so I'm trying to present this in a way that will force some action.