Evidence of meeting #12 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was studies.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10 a.m.
Conservative
April 27th, 2010 / 10 a.m.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
Mr. Therrien, you appear to want to say something before I ask my questions. You have been nodding your head a lot.
10 a.m.
Spokesperson, Collectif S.E.M.O. Save our Children from microwave
Yes, thank you.
With respect to what Mr. Malo said about scientific research in Canada, I just wanted to mention that researchers from the radiology centre at Saint-Luc hospital in Montreal took part in the Interphone study, as experts. They made a request to assess the health effects on a population living near a relay antenna. The request was not funded by the CIHR, the research centre that normally funds studies.
In Canada, there is a clear unwillingness to fund so-called independent studies. The only studies we have and the only studies that Industry Canada relies on are those that, until proven otherwise, are funded by the CWTA. That is the point I wanted to make with respect to what Mr. Malo said earlier.
10 a.m.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
Very well. Thank you.
You mentioned, Ms. Pieterson, that Health Canada is basing the level based on studies, and I'd be interested in knowing who guided the research. How was it basically funded? Was it Health Canada or was it industry that funded the research?
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Ms. Pieterson, before you answer that, Mr. Lord wanted to make a comment on the last question.
Mr. Lord, would you do that first? Then we'll go to Ms. Pieterson.
10 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I'll be very brief.
Mr. Therrien has questioned us a few times and seems to want people to believe that the only studies conducted in Canada are those funded and led by the Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association, which is completely untrue.
Funding was provided. Our industry, our association wants to act responsibly. We are aware that some people may have questions. It is not unusual that we would decide to take part. The industry provides money, but it is only a portion of what is needed to carry out the studies. Neither the CWTA nor its members influence the studies in any way. We are not consulted regarding the results before they are published or anything like that. That needs to be clear.
It is one thing to want to scare people, but I think you need to be realistic and tell it like it is. You cannot get carried away and say things that are not true. The CWTA funded a portion of certain studies, but it has absolutely no right of review regarding those studies. The studies are independent. We are in a bit of a unique situation. Certain industries and companies are being singled out. So they decide to do the right thing and are willing to fund independent studies. Then they are criticized for funding the studies.
10 a.m.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
I do not want to get into a debate on that.
Madam Chair, this was my time, and I did ask a question to someone in particular.
I appreciate the feedback.
10 a.m.
NDP
10 a.m.
Director General, Environmental and Radiation Health Sciences Directorate, Department of Health
We based our Safety Code 6 on all available information. That's peer-reviewed scientific literature, expert reports, information. We do not conduct a lot of the research. Some of the published results are by Health Canada science. They are peer-reviewed and done by Health Canada scientists. The bulk of the data are done by international experts around the world. We followed the procedure--the World Health Organization has a guideline--on how to develop our Safety Code 6; we used the WHO's guideline on how to develop it.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
I just want to remind, as well, that sometimes Health Canada has put guidelines in place and they have had to change them because of other scientific evidence that has come forward. We need to look at what happened with the Bell Canada workers. We could look at what happened even before the smoking bylaws came into place. We used to think, oh, smoking was okay.
I want to ask a question with regard to Dr. Magda Havas. I did listen to the piece on CBC Radio, and I have a couple of letters here from some people who say they are affected by the cellphone usage or all of these towers. One of them comes from White Rock, B.C., and another one here comes from Toronto.
I understand you did do some studies in Toronto on a particular apartment, from a Mrs. Caroline Orban. My understanding is that Spectrum went in and did a study on this particular apartment as well.
I was just wondering what your findings were.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Oh.
Dr. Havas, could you please respond to that question?
Hello, Dr. Havas, are you there?
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
I'm so sorry. We'll try to get her back.
Who else do you want to respond?
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
I have another question.
It would seem that there is no danger, based on the reports you have reviewed, Mr. Lord. Is that the case? What effects are indicated in studies that you are not accepting?
10:05 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
Thank you for the question.
First of all, as I've said before, we comply with the regulations and standards that are set by Health Canada and are enforced by Industry Canada. There are studies from around the world.
We base what we say on the body of evidence that is out there. Someone asked earlier if there should be more studies. We welcome more studies. We think having more studies on the subject is a good thing. We want to make sure that these products are safe. We believe they are safe. We want to make sure that they continue to be safe, because everybody uses them, including us. We all have them. We use them ourselves. Our children use them. They're in our homes. They're everywhere. The fact is that they are safe.
We rely on the body of evidence that is out there. When we're asked to support studies, we only do it in cases of independent studies. We know that if we fund a study that is not independent, it's not a reliable study. We want it to be credible. And we're usually just one of many funding partners for certain studies.
There is a body of evidence out there in the scientific community, and we rely on that. We, as an industry, do not set the standards. I myself don't set the standards. We simply review what is there and we comply with the standards. I think it's important, as well, when we talk about these things, to realize the benefits that come from this technology.
We talk about health and safety concerns. Maybe some of the members of the committee don't realize it, but more than half the 911 calls in Canada are made on mobile wireless devices. There are some clearly positive impacts for our community.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Professor, As an Individual
Excuse me; I was disconnected as soon as the question was asked, so I didn't hear the entire question.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Dr. Havas, if you'll just be patient for a minute, we'll go to Dr. Carrie. It's his turn for questions. But just hang on, because we'll get back to you.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
You know what? In case we lose Dr. Havas again--we have a bad connection there--perhaps I would ask for patience from Dr. Carrie and go back to Ms. Hughes' question.
Ms. Hughes.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
Thank you.
Dr. Havas, I did listen to you on CBC Radio. I have some correspondence I received with regard to a study you did on an apartment in Toronto, specifically for a Caroline Orban. I was just wondering what your results were with respect to that apartment building.