Health Committee on Nov. 4th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go on to Ms. Dhalla.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you very much, everyone, for coming.

I'm going to go back to the questions that I think many of my colleagues around the table have asked, because we know many Canadians are concerned about their food safety.

Ms. Swan, you are the president of the Food Inspection Agency, and Mr. Mayers, you're the associate vice-president of programs. Did you identify that there are 3,300 field inspectors currently in place?

[Carole Swan]

We have published on our website the number of inspection staff at the CFIA, and the latest statistic from March 2010 is just over 3,300 field inspection staff, yes.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

As of today, November 4, 2010, how many non-slaughter inspectors would you have?

[Carole Swan]

The specific numbers for non-slaughter inspectors are not posted. We have a very—

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

They're not posted, but you're the boss.

[Carole Swan]

Yes, I am the boss. CFIA inspectors do a variety of things. Some inspectors in fact do more than one thing. They do multi-commodities. So at points in time, the number of inspectors can be very different, depending on whether we've had, for instance, plants opening or plants closing and whether we are finding issues with one particular kind of food commodity where we'll want an instant response and have to put inspectors on that. So the number is very changeable day to day. Frankly, a day-to-day assessment of the number of inspectors is not necessarily something we look at in terms of how we divide up our resources.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Let's talk about FTEs. How many full-time equivalents do you guys have right now?

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I'd like to make the same point of order on the line of questioning. As my colleague did say, all of this stuff and all the questions are very important, but as Mr. Shipley said, they've already heard about all of this in the agriculture subcommittee.

What I'd like to do is perhaps refer my colleague to the transcripts of the agriculture committee and the subcommittee. We have on the record that, I believe, 538 new inspectors have been hired since—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Carrie, that is a matter of debate and not a point of order. I'm sorry.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

This is the committee for health and we're talking about the safety of Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Dhalla, we need to keep respectful of everybody, so could you repeat—

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

With regard to FTEs, how many FTEs do you have right now?

[Carole Swan]

I don't have a figure for you at this moment on how many FTEs we have. As you're aware, FTE stands for full-time equivalents, so it would include people employed full-time, it would include people employed part-time, and it would include our shift workers. I don't have that statistic at this moment.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Just for non-slaughter FTEs, do you have any idea?

[Carole Swan]

Non-slaughter covers a variety of issues. It covers animal inspectors and plant inspectors as well. I do not have that specific statistic.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

You can understand perhaps a little bit of our surprise, because I think Mr. Mayers had mentioned that he didn't know. So we don't know whether it's not knowing or whether the numbers are too low, because when the Agriculture Union has been able to identify the exact numbers, and as people who head up the agency you're stating that you don't know the exact numbers, it creates a little bit of confusion. The Agriculture Union states that there were 220 non-slaughter meat hygiene inspectors. They state that there are approximately 200 full-time equivalents right now. How come they know and you don't?

[Carole Swan]

It is important to understand that the number of inspectors is a key aspect of ensuring food safety, and I do go back to my first statement. We have one of the safest food systems in the world. Inspectors need tools and support to do their jobs. We need to make sure that companies have HACCP programs in place. That is a whole combined approach in terms of ensuring food safety. Inspectors are a very important part, and of course the Agriculture Union represents only some of the inspectors. We have inspectors represented by other unions as well in the agency.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Because the Agriculture Union has been able to come out with those numbers, could you perhaps table with the committee the number of FTEs you do have and the number of inspectors who are involved in your non-slaughter meat hygiene aspect?

[Carole Swan]

Yes.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

The second question I wanted to ask was with regard to our standards versus the U.S. How often are you audited by the Department of Agriculture's food safety and inspection service?

[Carole Swan]

I'll ask Dr. Mayers to handle that one.

[Paul Mayers]

The U.S. undertakes audits of the Canadian system typically on an annual basis, and we similarly audit their system, because the systems in Canada and the U.S. have formally been reviewed as equivalent.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Did they ask and request that the meat be inspected once daily?

[Paul Mayers]

The U.S. legislation does require a daily presence in meat processing facilities. That's correct.