Health Committee on April 15th, 2010

[Dr. Ted Hewitt]

I'll be quick. I have to accept at face value whether there's a need or not a need for such a facility in Canada. I haven't read the report. I made my point in agreement with what Dr. Carver and Patrick Michaud said with respect to a possible move by the Gates Foundation to consider working to accelerate or ensure access to facilities so that we can move things through faster. The net effect, from our perspective, is that it's taking more time.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Fowke.

[Dr. Keith Fowke]

Will this slow our research down? The research I do is all pre-vaccine. We don't know what works. We have to figure out what goes into a good vaccine. As to the fact that we don't have a facility, our research comes before that. We're trying to feed into that. So I can't comment on that.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

I have time for one more question.

Mr. Bertozzi, you said in your statement that you have received documents that none of us has received to verify, in fact, that none of the four bids met the test set out in the beginning. Will you table those documents so that we have the benefit of this knowledge that no one else has been able to come up with, including the government?

[Dr. Stefano Bertozzi]

I'm sorry, could you just repeat that?

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

You said that you have the evidence to show that the four bids for this proposal did not meet the test in terms of scientific, technical, and sustainability criteria. Will you table those documents?

[Dr. Stefano Bertozzi]

Normally what happens in the foundation when we are going to make awards for grants is that we send out the grant applications for external review and receive comments from the external reviewers. In this case, my understanding of the process is that none of the four fully met the criteria.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

And I'm asking you to table this information.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Okay. Thank you very much.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

On what basis are you making that decision?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Now, we'll go to Dr. Carrie.

Dr. Carrie.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

On what basis are you making that judgment?

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Order, please.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I do apologize for my colleague badgering the witnesses, but I would—

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Oh, stop. Stop apologizing—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I'm going to call this to order, please.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

First of all, I would like to wrap this up by thanking you and all our witnesses for being here, because I think we've heard some excellent ideas around the table today on where we have to focus in the future. I also want to mention that I think everybody understands that the decision to cancel the facility was a very difficult one, but it was done to focus scarce worldwide resources on research and development, to save lives, not cost lives.

To sum up, Dr. Bernstein, and maybe Dr. Bertozzi, could you focus some last comments on that initiative, which I know was difficult, and state what the focus is moving forward?

[Dr. Alan Bernstein]

As my closing remark, I would go back to something the vice-chair just said, which is that the partnership with the Gates Foundation was to align with the enterprise's scientific strategic plan. I absolutely agree with her that it is urgent that every country in the world, along with the Gates Foundation and others, contributes to this effort to develop a vaccine.

So I look forward to Canada getting on with it, given that we've heard that a partnership is still intact and there is still, as far as I understand, goodwill on both sides. It is very important that Canada and the agencies representing the Canadian government decide on the best way forward and do so in partnership with the Gates Foundation and other partners. It is urgent.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much.

Dr. Bertozzi.

[Dr. Stefano Bertozzi]

Thank you.

I just want to say that I welcome the passion of the people at this table, including yours. I think we all share it. We live and breathe the need to combat this epidemic as quickly as possible.

I can tell you from our side that we are committed to coming to a conclusion as fast as possible on how these funds can be redirected so they can start to be spent as productively and as quickly as possible. Anything we can do to accelerate that, we certainly will do.

I just want to say one other thing, reiterating what I said before so that I'm not misunderstood. The approximately $200 million we have committed to Canadian institutions is, of course, not just for HIV but across the broad spectrum of the foundation's priorities.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

In closing, we would like to thank you very much for your contribution and partnership and foresight in moving this very important issue forward.

Thank you very much to the witnesses, and thank you very much, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Bennett.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

In view of today's testimony, I think it would be very important for this committee to hold one more hearing on this, where we would call Minister Aglukkaq and David Butler-Jones to discuss the redirection of the money and how we can expedite it as quickly as possible, and also establish whatever the commitment to the global fund is and to see if we can get that on the record before the WHA meeting next month.

However, I would also move that in view of what we've heard about interference, ethics, transparency, accountability, or whatever you want to call it, we call Minister Toews, Minister Clement, Dr. Frank Plummer, and Ms. Jo Kennelly to straighten out what's happened and give them an opportunity to speak for themselves on the innuendo or allegations so far. I think they deserve the opportunity to clear the air on how they feel this chronology rolled out.

So I would move that we hold one more hearing, the witnesses being Minister Aglukkaq, David Butler-Jones, Minister Toews, Mr. Clement, Dr. Frank Plummer, and Ms. Jo Kennelly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Dr. Bennett.

Is there discussion on this?

First Dr. Carrie and then Ms. Wasylycia-Leis.

Dr. Carrie.