Health Committee on Dec. 12th, 2011

[Chris Jones]

You've raised a host of issues there. I'll mention a couple of them.

One issue was the children's fitness tax credit, which was a very innovative scheme and the first of its kind introduced in the world. I know this is expensive, but I think we've seen the evidence that the take-up rate among the lower socio-economic classes is low, so we did put in our pre-budget submission that it should be made refundable. Of course that's going to be expensive, but that would be a little bit more desirable than it is right now.

Another issue was volunteer tax credits. You talked about volunteers and whether they could be permitted to write off some of the costs they incur from driving their kids to sporting events and additional costs that aren't covered in the registration.

There are a host of things. I can talk to you about them later.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

We have Mr. Haldane next.

[Scott Haldane]

I will answer in English.

Times have changed and it's important to get more creative. Let me give you a couple of examples.

We have actually built youth zones in several YMCA centres across the country with the help of the private sector. These youth zones actually have video games and other technological activities kids find very fun. The trick is, you can't play any of these games without being physically active. They're all like Dance Dance Revolution and other games of that sort. They're unbelievably active and unbelievably enjoyable for kids.

Secondly, every Friday night in the Toronto YMCA—and, again, at many other Y's across the country—is now teen night. It's free of charge for the teens in the community. They come in and they're not just hanging out; there's actually active usage of the facilities.

There are lots of ways to connect today's technology with very active programming. The key is access. So policy initiatives like the children's fitness tax credit, which really helped bring more low-income kids to YMCAs across the country, or support for organizations that provide those kinds of programs can really make the difference in getting kids to be able to participate, particularly low-income kids, who are much more vulnerable to health issues.

By the way, the study I mentioned before—and this was from ten years ago—showed that the cost per child was $250 to get that kind of outcome. It's not expensive to make these kinds of investments. Even if it has doubled over the last ten years, $500 per child to get these kinds of health outcomes is not expensive.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Murumets.

[Kelly Murumets]

I had the same answer as Andrea as it relates to schools, so I won't duplicate that answer.

What I was going to suggest is Active Canada 20/20. I'm not sure if it would be helpful to committee members, but it's in draft version, and obviously it's in English and in French. If that would be helpful, we can figure out how to make that available to members of the committee, because we talk about many of the issues you mentioned in your questions. It's a multi-faceted, complex issue; therefore the answer has to be multi-faceted.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Murumets, if you have that, send it to the clerk and we'll distribute it.

[Kelly Murumets]

Okay, I will do that with pleasure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

Dr. Morency.

[Dr. Patrick Morency]

Physical inactivity and obesity are an epidemic, and not just an individual problem. It exists in the United States, in all industrialized countries and in Canada, in all age groups, all communities, and all cities. So this is not just an individual problem, and a structural approach must be put in place.

Since World War II, we have developed low-density cities with few or no services and a culture of single-family homes. The role of the various levels of government is to limit municipal development. At the very least, their role is to inspire better practices and develop new standards, namely for urban transportation, either through taxation or tax measures, and to use transportation and urban development to stop giving priority to automobile travel.

That is the role of government. It involves urban development, access to sanitary housing, healthy food and a transportation system that is safe and that promotes health. In our view, that is what health promotion is all about, and it is part of the responsibilities faced by all levels of government.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Dr. Morency.

I went quite a bit over time, Dr. Sellah, just because I knew you wanted an answer. But next time we'll have to be very vigilant about the question time.

Mr. Brown.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for all the information so far.

I am curious as to whether we have any information on how other countries in the world that have lower rates of childhood obesity have achieved their goals. In areas that have levels that are different from those for Canada, is there a greater usage of recreation? Is there a more active education program on nutrition at elementary or high school levels? Can you give us examples we should be looking at from countries that have had a level of success in combatting this?

[Kelly Murumets]

It's a very logical question. The metrics for success are different in each country, and the measurement methods are different in each country. However, the world is starting to align its efforts on this. The United Nations in September of this year declared childhood obesity to be one of its major areas of concern. In its declaration on this crisis, it talked about physical activity.

The world is finally starting to share ideas and concepts, and in fact this year I spoke in several different countries about what we're doing here in Canada. Given our alarming rates, it's amazing that we were asked to speak about it, but the world shares these kinds of alarming statistics.

The countries that are best would be the Netherlands and some of the Scandinavian countries. Education is one thing that is different there. They offer physical education in schools, and they have physical activity time in schools. The second difference is active transportation. The infrastructure is just different in those countries, so it is safe to ride your bike, and it is safe to walk on sidewalks, etc.

We're starting to look at how the infrastructure, policy, programs, and education initiatives in those countries could be adapted around the world. I would say this is a global epidemic. We share many of the same challenges.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Mr. Jones.

[Chris Jones]

From the sports perspective, one of the things we don't do very well in Canada is to orchestrate our sports and their physical venues in one centre. We have a hockey club here, a soccer club there, a swimming club somewhere else. In Germany, for example--I lived in Europe for seven years--they put many sports in one facility. So you have a multi-sport complex. You have coaches, medical help, physicians, sport physicians, athletic therapists, and all kinds of people in one place. The child joins the club in his early years, and if he has an aptitude for one sport, he sticks with that. If he doesn't, he's easily moved to another place within the same centre.

We don't structure the provision of facilities that way in Canada. It's a shame. The current revision of the Canadian sport policy, which I've been involved in, has been talking about doing that. So that's one illustration.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

One of the studies we've done here looked at chronic diseases related to aging. When we looked at neurological disorders, one thing we talked about was that a means to delay onset would be, obviously, more physical activity and mental stimulation. One government program I liked was the New Horizons program, which actually funded some of these physical exercise classes in seniors homes, but that kind of thing is done on a small level right now. Is that the type of program you think would be helpful in Canada if it were done on a much broader basis?

What suggestions do you have as to how we could get...? We talk about Canadians not being active enough. I'm sure that's even more important among seniors. If we had more seniors who were active in some form of physical activity, it would be helpful on a number of levels. Do you have suggestions on how we could get our seniors population to be more engaged?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Mr. Haldane.

[Scott Haldane]

We offer most of our programs in a mixed environment where we have people of all ages and abilities and so on. But one of the things we've seen more and more YMCAs engaged in is partnerships with the health care system, so that's with hospitals and so on, for people who are at risk of illness, or who actually are dealing with an illness such as cancer or heart conditions, or prehab and rehab for hip replacements, knee replacements, and so on. We're now having the hospitals actually provide these programs right in YMCA facilities.

What we've found is that when people go to the outpatient clinic at the hospital, they feel like they're still sick. When they're asked to go to the YMCA to work out, not only do they feel like they're getting better, but most of the time they actually end up becoming YMCA members--either through financial assistance or by paying directly themselves--and they go on to living a healthier, active lifestyle. We have some very, very interesting partnerships. Actually, the Calgary YMCA is building a YMCA in the children's hospital.

These kinds of multi-source activities.... Actually, one of the biggest pairings we're finding with new YMCAs is libraries. Putting libraries and YMCAs in the same building allows families to stimulate their minds and their bodies at the same time and also to actually have the kids doing one thing while the adults do another and vice versa and so on.

So I totally agree with the multi-sector programming; but also, moving health care out of the health care system and into the community is going to make a significant difference as well.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

I would note that the YMCA on Grove Street in Barrie does an excellent job of running seniors programs that are not cost-prohibitive. I'm sure that is very helpful. I guess it's just a question of needing more of it in the country.

I have another question. What can we do with the cost-prohibitive nature of getting youth involved in recreation? Families are pressed, obviously, especially during a time of global economic uncertainty, so how can we make recreation more accessible for families?

Obviously one of the initiatives undertaken was that fitness tax credit we talked about. I understand that one of the speakers has mentioned it. Maybe if it were refundable that would be helpful. Now we're looking at one for adults as well. I think those carrots are obviously a step in the right direction, but I know that in my riding joining the local hockey team is expensive for a lot of families. They're not able to do it, especially when they have a few kids. In a lot of the recreational programs, the costs are prohibitive, or the parents are working late hours and don't have the time in their schedule to take the kids to those programs.

Do you think there's a better system so that we could maybe incorporate sports more into the school system, into after-school programs...? Are there better ways to make it easier for families to get young Canadians addicted to sports at a young age?

[Dr. Patrick Morency]

What we learned from the Scandinavian countries--especially from Stockholm, Copenhagen, and the Netherlands--is that if you provide playgrounds, parks, and safe roads, it may take years, but everyone benefits from it. The children, the parents, and the seniors just get more into the streets. Nowadays in Copenhagen, most people walk and play outside, and just go to a café or whatever, but that wasn't the case 20 or 30 years ago. They took it a step at a time over a period of 30 or 40 years, but through environmental strategies, and that's the way they became more active.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Thanks.

[Andrea Grantham]

Through the after-school initiative, one of the key areas we're looking to influence is policy. We're looking at things like how we can reduce barriers such as cost and access. We're looking at how we can support schools and community facilities in a better sharing of their resources. That's an area where costs can be cut down.

We've also brought the Jumpstart kids foundation into the initiative to look at how they can provide equipment not only for kids who lack equipment, but for after-school programs that may not have the tools and the resources to support physically active after-school programs, in order to provide for those kinds of environments as another way to reduce barriers.

[Kelly Murumets]

We need to add, so that there's a third population represented here. For teenagers, ParticipACTION created Sogo Active. I started to mention this in my original introductory comments.

Teenagers told us that they don't want their parents influencing them, that they don't want old guys like me telling them what physical activity is, and that teenagers will decide what physical activity is. So we've created this program with private sector funding, and it's all around youth and inspiring youth to get more physically active. They define physical activity in all different ways, shapes, and forms.

Scott talked a bit about some of the programs the YMCA is doing, but dance is a huge piece for teenagers, so it's not just sport. It's not just organized sports that cost money. So what we do is deploy moneys out to kids and to community-based organizations to support teenagers whose physical activity levels are less than 7% of the population in regard to meeting the physical activity guidelines, with them creating challenges for themselves or their colleagues in their particular community to get more physically active.

There are a lot of creative ways for us to do this--even using private sector moneys--without it being cost-prohibitive.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Do I have any time left, or am I out?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

No, you're out of time.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Okay, thank you.