Health Committee on Jan. 31st, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Okay.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

This amendment is put forward today based on what we heard from the witnesses, so that's why it wasn't submitted earlier.

I thought the witnesses made a really important point, and that is that we not only need to increase awareness and information for women who are going through screening and dealing with the issue of dense breast tissue, but we also need to provide awareness and education for practitioners.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Can you read the amendment?

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes. Line 14, in subparagraph 2(b)(ii), reads,

(ii) raise awareness concerning these challenges; and

Before the word “and”, my amendment would read,

...including increased awareness and education for practitioners;

I'll just hand that over to you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Is there any discussion on this?

Mr. Strahl is first, and then Mr. Brown.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I would just say that there is nothing in the existing clause that precludes increased awareness for practitioners, and in fact including it would raise that particular issue above any others. I think the current wording is sufficient. I would be voting against that amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Mr. Brown.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

In terms of awareness and best practices for practitioners, the existing bill provides that. If you're talking about specific education programs to train provincial health care workers, that's obviously beyond our role as a federal government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Davies.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

If I could just respond, it's very disappointing that I can see the government members are unfortunately going to turn down every attempt to actually support this bill and strengthen it. We're going to vote for it anyway, but this is a very genuine attempt to try to address some of the issues that have been brought forward by the witnesses. By flagging this, I think we're flagging a very important point they made about practitioners that isn't really clear in the bill. On that basis, I think it's a very supportable element to the bill. It doesn't change the scope of the bill or anything like that. It just makes it clear that we have to raise awareness for practitioners.

So I'd really ask members over there to think about supporting the amendment, because I think it will help to make the bill better.

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

We'll now go to amendment NDP-4.

Ms. Quach, you're up again.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

This is about establishing national standards for systematic breast cancer screening for women who are 50 years of age or older. It goes back to the need to provide more information. Earlier, a number of witnesses stressed the extent to which we have no uniform standards across Canada. In some provinces or territories, women do not automatically have the information or the access to diagnostic testing or to specialized health care professionals who are able to provide appropriate advice. That would allow all women, including those with higher density breast tissue, to find out what that density is and to be screened earlier and more effectively.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Ms. Quach.

Go ahead, Mrs. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to speak against this amendment.

In the comments I made to the witnesses earlier, I think I referred to the fact that at 50 years of age, I am receiving letters from the provincial screening program. This amendment is actually redundant. Most provinces and territories already have breast cancer screening in place. The screening happens every two years for women between the ages of 50 to 69.

Again, we've talked about the jurisdiction of the provinces. They set policy and standards related to breast cancer screening, not the federal government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Is there any further discussion?

Go ahead, Ms. Quach.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Actually, we heard earlier that, in some provinces and territories—Nunavut was mentioned—there is no screening. In Quebec, screening is done automatically for women after they turn 50. Just now, we heard a doctor recommend that it be done, not only starting at 40, but even annually as well.

Between 1996 and 2006, the mortality rate dropped by 25% in Quebec as a result of this systematic screening. The government of Quebec is responsible for it. In terms of improvements, I feel that the goal is exactly to reduce the mortality rate and increase prevention. That is precisely what this amendment seeks to do.

I do not understand why there is so much reluctance from the members opposite. Everyone should be working together, supporting this bill and trying to improve it. That is what we are trying to do with the provisions we want to add. We want it to be more effective. We can take inspiration from several provinces. We have been told about advances in British Columbia, for example.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Dr. Fry.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

I'm not voting against these amendments because I don't agree with them; I just think they completely change the intent of the bill. While I don't necessarily agree with Kelly when she says that it's going to be usurping the role, because it says “in collaboration with”, I still think that expanding it to breast cancer screening for women who are 50 years of age and older changes the scope and the intent of the bill, and that's the reason I'm going to vote against it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

Dr. Sellah is next.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I actually wanted to follow in the footsteps of my colleague Anne, but Dr. Fry took the words out of my mouth when she said that there was no attempt to usurp provincial jurisdiction over health. It is very clearly indicated here that this would be done in collaboration.

We want to standardize the system so that we can do more screening of Canadian women everywhere. There is no question of usurping an area of provincial jurisdiction. That is all I wanted to point out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Could we please go to the vote now?

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I actually just have one point. Could we get an opinion from the legislative counsel here as to whether or not this clause is within the scope of the bill?

[Mike MacPherson, Procedural Clerk]

Do you mean the amendment?

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes, sorry; that's what I meant, the amendment.

[Mike MacPherson]

The amendment does not breach any procedural rule.