Health Committee on May 7th, 2015

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

Again, now we have—

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

It should have at least 45 inspectors, as per the standard, but has only 30. Are you going to demand that it have an adequate number of inspectors?

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

I appreciate that you want to do the bidding of the union leader, but we have made very clear investments. We have enough inspectors. In fact, we are now rated the safest food system in the world.

Let me read to you what some actual experts, not union leaders, in the food safety system say. Dr. Keith Warriner, director of the food safety and quality assurance program at the University of Guelph, said that the suggestion that meat sold in Canada is unsafe is just scaremongering.

Another professor, who's in bio-resource policy at the University of Saskatchewan and a food safety expert, says:

Canada has one of the top, if not the top, food safety systems in the world. Other countries look to our regulatory system as a model of food safety.... ...food products that are available for purchase in our grocery stores are as safe as they possibly can be.

I would ask you to not fearmonger because food safety is very important to Canadians. Our inspectors are doing an excellent job.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Absolutely. But Canadians obviously want enough inspectors on the job.

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

Our inspectors have all of the resources they need and they're doing an excellent job.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

I'm going to switch topics. I want to make sure I have enough time for my question.

In 2012-13, the budget for the animal health and zoonotics program was $175 million. And in the 2014-15 and 2015-16 budgets, that amount was $90 million.

With respect to jobs and human resources, the number of full-time equivalent positions for the animal health and zoonotics program—

[The Chair, Conservative, Ben Lobb]

Ms. Morin, we are over time.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

was significantly cut, and I'd like to know—

[The Chair, Conservative, Ben Lobb]

You were a little over five minutes. We did give you a bit of extra time.

Mr. Young, you have five minutes.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for joining us today, and to everyone else who came.

Before I ask my question, I would like to congratulate you and Health Canada on the anti-drug online and television ads, which we saw, which you commissioned. I thought they were very effective. Obviously, they would get the viewer's attention. It appeared as if they were slanted toward young people, which is very important, before they decide to try drugs, so they are aware that they would be very bad for their health. I thought they were excellent so I wanted to congratulate you on them.

As you know, Minister, drug safety issues have been a focus of my life for many years, so I was very pleased to have had the opportunity to take part in our review of Vanessa's Law. We ensured that the final wording of the bill addressed long-standing issues that drug safety experts have been raising for years about the lack of transparency by Health Canada.

When we're drafting legislation on issues as important as drug safety, it's absolutely essential that we listen to the experts and accept good advice when it is offered. Your openness to hearing that advice has strengthened the bill, and I believe it will serve to strengthen our drug safety system for years to come.

We have now had the law passed for some time. I know that a number of measures are undergoing consultation to ensure that the details are implemented effectively; in other words, we're going to get it right. Can you please provide some additional details to the committee about the continuous monitoring of the development of these powers that have been put in place?

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

This one of our top priorities. Before the bill was even passed, we were already writing the regulations and working with the appropriate experts and stakeholders to get the regulations moving because we want them in place as quickly as possible

For instance, you might know that on the issue of adverse drug reactions, we need the information from hospitals. Some hospitals were a little concerned about how we would implement that regulation, so we're right now working to consult with them on what's the best way to collect that information quickly and efficiently, and in a way that isn't going to slow down the work that they do on the front line. That's an example of the people with whom we need to coordinate.

I can reassure you that, as I said, before the law even passed, we started to work on the regulations and we wanted them in place as quickly as possible. Of course, you know that some of the powers, which are in the legislation and didn't require regulations, came into force as soon as the law passed.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

The adverse drug reaction piece, which requires health care institutions to report adverse drug reactions, I understand that they're in the process of coordinating with hospitals and health care institutions. I've been doing this for many years. My experience is that doctors, for various reasons, do not want to report adverse drug reactions, the serious ones, and we're only talking about serious ones. They just don't want to report them for a range of reasons and they just outright refuse.

I wonder if you have any information at this point regarding the level of cooperation that health care institutions are getting from their own doctors. All hospitals have a process already that's supposed to capture the serious adverse drug reactions. They're supposed to be reported internally, but this is another step. As I said, my experience is that doctors don't like to report them.

Have you heard anything or had any feedback on how the process is going with the doctors?

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

I don't have any feedback at the moment, but I can tell you if we run into a problem, I'll be open to doing whatever we have to do because this is incredibly important. There's no reason that a physician especially would not want to participate in a law like this and make sure that we can track and use this information about adverse drug reactions so we as a regulator of pharmaceuticals can make decisions on whether or not drugs are safe.

I don't have any reason to believe things aren't going well, but I can reassure you that if they don't go well, we will apply pressure in whatever way we have to.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ben Lobb]

Mr. Young, you have thirty seconds.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

I've discovered in my research that some of the reasons that doctors don't want to report them are very good reasons. It's very painful for a doctor who's prescribed a drug to discover that the drug has harmed a patient. These are wonderful people who dedicate their lives to helping others.

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

Yes.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Sometimes they're very busy, which is a less useful reason, in my view, because if that life-saving information gets back to the regulator, they can spot a drug that may be harming a patient very early on. I think sometimes they're afraid of being sued, which is a very practical side of it. In the past they were sending the reports in to the Canadian Medical Association, but no one was doing anything with them. I think that doctors felt nothing was going to happen with them, so why take time to fill out a form—

[The Chair, Conservative, Ben Lobb]

Mr. Young....

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

—but Vanessa's Law gives a place for them to go where something will be acted on.

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

Absolutely.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ben Lobb]

Thank you, Mr. Young.

Next up, we have Ms. Ashton. Go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Great, thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister Ambrose, I want to go back to what I think are some of the more urgent issues facing our country when it comes to health, and those are the challenges faced by indigenous communities.

I'm very troubled by the statement that you made earlier with regard to the reductions in budgets that we've seen to be at about 15% since 2011 not counting as cuts but as sunsetting.

Minister Ambrose, if we are to simply stick with the idea of sunsetting, we're talking about programs that were never replaced and certainly not replaced in terms of the critical care that was provided to communities. I know in certain cases those programs were indigenous, run by indigenous people; indigenous health professionals catered to indigenous communities and had high rates of success. Given that we've figured out there has been a slash of 15% to primary health care budgets since 2011, I'm wondering how you and your government can excuse that kind of a cut in an area where it's needed most.

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

You might want to repeat that question to the deputy minister, but he assures me, in fact, that there is no decrease. There is in fact an increase of $164.8 million, and that is for renewal of growth in first nations and Inuit health programs and services, an increase in funding level change for implementation of the British Columbia tripartite framework, an increase in the renewal of the first nations water and waste water action plan, and an increase in a territorial health investment fund.

But further to that, one of the things that came out in the Auditor General's report about first nations health is this jurisdictional issue. I would encourage you as a member from Manitoba, and I've encouraged the Manitoba government and first nations from Manitoba, to think about the innovative idea that's happening in British Columbia where we have the province, the federal government, and first nations creating health—

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

That's fine and I appreciate that, but my role here is as a Canadian parliamentarian and I do want to bring it back to primary health care. The statements that you referred to cover a wide range, and if you would be—