Evidence of meeting #65 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was prevention.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marnin Heisel  Research Director and Associate Professor, Department of Phychiatry, University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Bartholomew Chaplin
Bonnie Schroeder  Director, Canadian Coalition for Seniors' Mental Health
Karen R. Cohen  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Psychological Association
Ghislain Beaulieu  President, Fondation Martin-Bradley
R. Nicholas Carleton  Associate Professor, Department of Psychology, University of Regina, As an Individual

4:25 p.m.

Director, Canadian Coalition for Seniors' Mental Health

Bonnie Schroeder

I would concur with Dr. Cohen about the implementation. We've developed some great tools and resources, such as the caregiver guidelines, seniors mental health services, and anti-stigma, but again, without resources and opportunity to come together and do it in a coordinated way, that implementation is key.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Thanks.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Thank you very much.

That will conclude the first hour of our meeting today. We'll suspend for a minute or two before we come back with our new witnesses.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

We're back in session.

We have two guests this hour. I understand that we have a video conference set up, as well as a teleconference.

We'll start with you Monsieur Beaulieu by teleconference, and then we'll go to Mr. Carleton.

May 28th, 2015 / 4:25 p.m.

Ghislain Beaulieu President, Fondation Martin-Bradley

Good afternoon.

My name is Ghislain Beaulieu and I am the president and founding member of the Fondation Martin-Bradley. This foundation was created in March 2008 to help the mental health sector, which we feel is the poor cousin of the health care sector.

The foundation was launched as a result of a personal family experience. I have a son with a mental illness; he has schizophrenia. My wife and I decided to help the mental health sector by creating this foundation.

At the outset, we found a family who had previously gone through the experience and who lost a son because of mental illness. They are a well-known family from Rouyn-Noranda, the Bradley family. They agreed to contribute to the cause by going back over painful memories, by lending their name to the foundation and by making a significant investment. At first, they invested $500,000 in the foundation. Five years later, they contributed $500,000 more. They have already invested $1 million in the foundation.

The other step was to form a diversified and credible board from the public. This board is made up of nine people. Afterwards, we met with all the organizations that work in the mental health sector in our region to see if they needed help and, if our help was welcome, what their challenges were and what projects they would like to work on in the future.

We also met with representatives from the local health care network, the regional health care agency at the time, to make sure that we would bring added value to the system. We did not want to make up for the potential budget cuts in the health care system.

The mission of the foundation is to help organizations that support those affected by mental illness with various chosen projects. We never give money directly to people. We have a project selection committee that is independent of the foundation's board. Once a year, after a project competition, the members of that committee make recommendations about the projects they suggest that we support.

The foundation has a unifying role. The foundation helps to open doors and it is an agent of change. We support the outstanding work the organizations have done. We also dare to talk to the public about mental illness. We see that community organizations are key elements in the success of our health care systems. As partners, they are indispensable for the well-being of the health networks. The foundation is the link between those networks and the community.

Since 2008, the foundation has redistributed over $450,000 to organizations in support of various projects. Early this spring, we started building 24 housing units in Rouyn-Noranda for people with mental health issues. The foundation has contributed $100,000 to the project.

We translated books and stories adapted for children, which deal with various aspects of mental illness. We also provide training. This year, we also held a fundraiser where we gave 600 books to everyone who bought a ticket. It is the book called Je suis une personne, pas une maladie by Luc Vigneault, who is a fairly well-known personality in Quebec. This is our way of reducing the stigma and encouraging people to talk about it, to seek help and to be open about mental illnesses, which are increasingly present in our communities.

That sums up what our foundation does.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Thank you very much.

Next up is Mr. Carleton.

Can you hear us okay?

4:30 p.m.

Dr. R. Nicholas Carleton Associate Professor, Department of Psychology, University of Regina, As an Individual

Yes, I can.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Okay, go ahead, sir.

4:30 p.m.

Associate Professor, Department of Psychology, University of Regina, As an Individual

Dr. R. Nicholas Carleton

Good afternoon, and thank you for inviting me to speak with you today. I am Dr. Nicholas Carleton, a registered doctoral clinical psychologist and associate professor at the University of Regina. I have expertise in anxiety, trauma, and pain, having worked with traumatic responses for the last 15 years.

My research is supported by CIHR, and I maintain a small private practice, primarily treating RCMP officers who have PTSD. In addition, for the past few years I've been presenting to and advocating for Canadian first responder mental health.

Since World War I there have been tremendous efforts to improve our understanding of mental health, treatments for mental health disorders, and access to those treatments. We now know that mental health disorders are not the result of deficiencies in biology or character; instead, mental health is the result of a complex interplay among biological, psychological, and social elements of our reality. Our mental health influences our experiences, expectations, and behaviours. As such, it is difficult to overstate the importance of individual mental health to physical health and the health of our communities.

Despite these advances, as you've heard already, mental health disorders are pervasive and extremely costly. Fortunately, I believe we're all working toward common goals for reducing those personal, social, and economic costs by destigmatizing mental health and improving access to appropriately delivered, empirically supported treatments. For example, the MHCC strategy, action plan, opening minds initiative, and national standard. National professional and community associations have also engaged campaigns, such as Mind Your Mental Health by the Canadian Psychological Association; the Road to Mental Readiness by some military and policing organizations; Defeat Depression by the MDSC; and the Ride Don’t Hide campaign by the Canadian Mental Health Association.

We have also seen increasing corporate commitments, notably Bell Canada with their Let’s Talk media campaign, and their Canada chair in mental health and anti-stigma research at Queen’s University. Canadians have also recognized the need for ongoing dedicated efforts to support our military, veterans, first responders, and their families.

We have come a particularly long way in supporting military mental health and will continue to do better. Recently, I have also seen first-hand the exceptional leadership of our first responder communities, such as the RCMP, the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, paramedic chiefs, and fire chiefs, as well as the International Association of Firefighters, to name a few. Indeed, we are seeing increasing demands from all first responders to provide ready access to evidence-based solutions, interventions, and preventive strategies for improving mental health.

The rationale should be quite clear: our first responder communities are reaching a tipping point. The dramatic increase in reported operational stress injuries is starting to overwhelm the stigma that has silenced so many of these citizens for so long.

Our first responders have unique workplace environments where trauma exposure is the rule, rather than the exception. The trauma exposure that first responders face is different than the military face—not better, not worse, just different. Our first responders are deployed at home in an environment of ongoing uncertainty, often for decades. They have a complex role providing both protection and law enforcement. We are also asking them to do more, such as community development, international policing, and first aid for mental health. Accordingly, first responders require dedicated and specialized resources for their own mental health.

Canadians already have an excellent and established mechanism for supporting and communicating research evidence to improve health: the Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research, often abbreviated as CIMVHR. It represents a network of 37 Canadian universities facilitating the development of new research, research capacity, and effective knowledge translation.

I'm pleased to say that the University of Regina, a founding member of CIMVHR, is working closely with CIMVHR, and researchers from other member universities, and international leaders to develop a dedicated Canadian first responder hub to support evidence-based policies, practices, and programming for mental health.

Research evidence supporting first responder mental health can also uniquely support mental health for all Canadians. The evidence to date suggests that given the right circumstances, anyone can develop an anxiety or mood disorder. The nature of first responder careers places them at higher risk; however, the nature of their training practices and workplace processes also offers mechanisms for understanding and improving everyone’s mental health.

Solutions for first responders inform solutions for all of us. Moreover, our first responders are community leaders and role models who can facilitate transformations in attitudes and actions toward mental health at a grassroots level in every community across Canada.

Our RCMP and their Depot training facility offers an ideal opportunity for developing world-class, solution-focused, evidence-based strategies. A multi-university team of interdisciplinary researchers, supported by the new first responder hub, has conceptualized a prospective, longitudinal, comprehensive solution to do just that. The solution involves a transformative research project that builds on existing frameworks, like the Road to Mental Readiness and work by the MHCC.

The project has received ethical clearance, and the University of Regina-led team is working with the RCMP and our partner organizations to make it a reality. The highly visible project will produce research and results that can inform policies, practices, and programming, turning aspirational standards for mental health into actionable, measurable improvements for all Canadians.

The available research evidence already supports licensed and structured psychotherapy as critical for mental health care; however, we have insufficient professional capacity to offer appropriate services to all those in need. The solution requires that we do three things: first, ensure patients can and do access appropriate specialists who are correctly using evidence-based treatments; second, support the training of more specialists with appropriate credentials; and third, support research that improves evidence-based care and innovates models for care delivery.

Alternatives to these solutions risk diluting mental health care, creating false notions that all care is equal, and proliferating pseudo-scientific responses to mental health. Indeed, the ongoing proliferation of pseudo-science in mental health, as well as an overreliance on well-meaning persons with insufficient expertise, is already problematic. Many people are receiving care that is not empirically supported, and it is not good enough. Canadians deserve better, and we can do better. We have the mechanisms. We have the expertise.

Such efforts are under way. For example, the Canadian Association of Cognitive and Behavioural Therapies is working to certify practitioners and ensure access to evidence-based mental health care. Furthermore, our universities can and should be supported as foundations for collaborative research into even better evidence-based solutions to support our practitioners and therein our citizens.

That said, research should not be done to an organization or to a person. Research should be done with organizations and with people, not as an end point that produces a stand-alone report, but as an ongoing, prospective, collaborative, and, importantly, transformative solution to address a challenge.

The recent transformations to meet mental health challenges result from a convergence of factors. High-profile spokespersons, as well as leaders engaging in active organizational interventions, have helped to create a cultural shift. The research base has expanded since World War I, but we still have a long way to go to proceed as confidently as we must. There are new technologies that can improve communication, assessment, intervention, and even prevention.

We also have leaders, including all of you, who want to build on the initiatives I've highlighted today; however, a full and proper response to the calls for addressing modern mental health challenges will require increased and ongoing federal and provincial investment and involvement, as well as actions to ensure that evidence-based care is accessible.

This means investing in the new first responder hub and the research-based program for reducing PTSD and other operational stress injuries in our RCMP. This means investing in ongoing long-term research projects with interdisciplinary researchers so that we can speak with authority about variables associated with risk, resiliency, and recovery. This means investing in developing and credentialing experts to ensure the availability of evidence-based care, and also in the researchers and trainees who develop that evidence. This means investing in evidence-based prevention and early intervention.

Finally, this means investing in education to build increasingly stigma-free perceptions of mental health and knowledge about effective health care options into the mindsets of all Canadians, so that we truly change the conversation for future generations.

We can do better. We must do better. The solutions are no longer aspirational. They are achievable. Working with our first responders as role models in all of our communities, we can develop and proliferate better assessments and better interventions and engage in preventative strategies that reduce risk, increase resiliency, and improve mental health for all Canadians.

We are ready when you are.

Thank you.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Thank you very much.

Up first for cinq minutes, we have Ms. Moore.

Go ahead.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Thank you very much.

My questions are for Mr. Beaulieu.

In your presentation, you talked about stories for children that deal with mental illness and that have been translated. I think you have translated four so far. Could you tell me what impact talking to children about mental illness has on society? In your view, are there enough tools right now that parents and teachers can use to talk about mental illness to children?

4:40 p.m.

President, Fondation Martin-Bradley

Ghislain Beaulieu

I don't think there are a lot of tools. In fact, that's what motivated us to translate the collection of books by Gayle Grass, who is from Ottawa and who is a member of the charity called Iris the Dragon. Before we had the books translated, we had them approved by our organizations, both from the schools and from the community. They assured us that they didn't have such tools and that they would be happy to be able to use them with children. These books, which are for young people between the ages of 6 and 12, are richly illustrated stories that allow children to talk to their parents about the various mental illnesses discussed.

We have translated four books so far; 2,000 copies of each book were distributed in schools, libraries, the offices of relevant professionals, and are still accessible. Families who hear about these books can contact us. We provide them free of charge to the people who need them.

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

You often feature people dealing with mental health issues, but who have nonetheless been able to cope with them and have adapted well.

What impact does this have on individuals with mental illnesses?

4:45 p.m.

President, Fondation Martin-Bradley

Ghislain Beaulieu

It gives them hope for a complete recovery. In fact, we know that this is possible. Of course, a supervised approach is necessary to succeed. Yes, medication is important, but I think following up on the people who agree to take the medication is just as important as the medication itself. These people need to be able to continue to talk about their condition. If the medication needs to be adjusted, they definitely need to be able to say what side effects they are feeling. At any rate, that allows them to be confident enough to talk about mental illness and to treat it like any other disease.

When a person has diabetes, we are not afraid to ask them how they are feeling. In the case of mental illness, people have an opportunity to see individuals who are not afraid to show their condition, which in turn gives them the confidence to talk about it, to seek the necessary treatment and to follow the necessary therapy.

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Do you feel that the interventions sometimes focus too much on the cure—the medication—and sort of overlook the process of support, of adapting a lifestyle to a health status?

4:45 p.m.

President, Fondation Martin-Bradley

Ghislain Beaulieu

Yes, I think it is still not well understood. As I mentioned, there is more to it than medication. There is also an entire process around it, starting with a life plan. Someone who agrees to take their medication and continues to do so for a long time—as it is a lifelong disease—must be able to grasp the instructions for, and the effects of, taking medications. Yes, there are some adverse effects, but I think taking medication has many more positive effects than not taking it. People must be educated about that.

The sick person must receive permanent support, so to speak. They really need that support during the recovery stage. Without it, they may easily—and we see it often—stop taking their medication, telling themselves that they are doing well because of their own efforts and that they will be able to control their disease. Strong support and guidance—be it from therapists, advocacy groups or social workers—help them see on a regular basis that the disease is ever-present and that treatment is ongoing.

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Thank you. My time is unfortunately up. It was a pleasure to hear from you.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Lizon.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

You'll have to excuse me. I am losing my voice, but I hope you can hear me.

The first question I have is for Professor Carleton. Thank you for your presentation.

I want to ask you this, first of all. This committee conducted a study on prescription drug abuse, antidepressant abuse. On one hand we have become, I think, the country with third highest rate of consumption of antidepressants in the world. We know that some painkillers and antidepressants eventually lead to certain mental disorders. On the other hand, we have growing numbers of people with mental disorders. PTSD, for example, was not recognized until relatively recently. Therefore, professor, how do you put it together? You mentioned prevention and early intervention. How do you determine who needs help? How do you determine high-risk people?

I know the science may not be there. I will give you one short story before you answer. I also serve on the veterans affairs committee, and at a recent meeting someone was complaining that there's a case of a veteran who was first diagnosed with PTSD, and then he was reassessed by another doctor as having anxiety, and the person was told that was wrong. We have to rely on a doctor's opinion. Can you maybe elaborate on all these issues?

4:50 p.m.

Associate Professor, Department of Psychology, University of Regina, As an Individual

Dr. R. Nicholas Carleton

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'd very much like to thank the member for his question. I will try to answer as much of that as I can.

There is certainly a complex relationship between psychopharmacology and psychotherapy. I believe that, in fact, there is a role for both. I do believe that we do not have enough research at this point to definitively speak to when and how we might engage one versus the other. We do have research, though, and several recent reviews and meta-analyses that indicate that psychotherapy is as effective or marginally more effective than pharmacotherapy for several different disorders.

If there are difficulties associated with side effects, certainly having broader, more readily available access to evidence-based psychotherapy might help us to reduce the pressure on psychiatry and physicians to provide psychopharmaceutical support when, in many cases, they don't have someone they can refer a patient to otherwise.

As for the question you asked about identifying the variables and engaging in prevention, you're right that we don't yet have the definitive results available to say that a certain variable needs to be changed or that we need to engage in a certain specific process. What we're hoping to do, starting very soon, is to engage in long-term prospective research, for example working with cadets before they engage in stressful and potentially traumatic events, measuring them before, measuring them during, and measuring them after these events. We can use that data to inform real solutions so that going forward, we can then help new eras of cadets by reducing their risk and increasing their resiliency.

As for the diagnostic differences, there are differences of opinion, of course, that go along with diagnoses. I think one of the best things we can do is to continue to support the education and increasing credentialling of persons involved with mental health. We need more legislation and restrictions on diagnoses, rather than providing more people with the capacity to diagnose, necessarily. We need to ensure that people are sufficiently educated and sufficiently experienced to make sure they're correct.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Thank you very much.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. St-Denis.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Lise St-Denis Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have two questions for Mr. Beaulieu.

A $1-million donation is really a lot of money. How did you resolve the potential issue with the health care system? You have received a lot of money in grants to address mental health problems. How did the health care system respond?

Do you provide funding to change people's attitudes? You could change attitudes with so much money.

I am very familiar with Rouyn-Noranda. People have their preconceived notions in small communities. The smaller the community, the more stigma there is; the larger the community, the less stigma there is. Have you set aside any funds for working on that aspect of mental health recognition?

4:50 p.m.

President, Fondation Martin-Bradley

Ghislain Beaulieu

Ms. St-Denis, first, I would say that $1 million is indeed a lot of money. To date, we have raised a total of more than $1.6 million for the foundation.

The health care system's response has been good. From the beginning, we sat down with its representatives to explain that we would be an extra player and not a substitute. So far, the response has been a positive one.

We are making sure that the projects we support are additional or complementary. We could be talking about pilot projects to innovate and improve the quality of life for those affected, or improve their environment. When selecting projects, we make sure not to be a substitute for what the state or governments were doing or should be doing. That is part of our method and one of our priorities.

You are right; our objective and priority are to educate the public and encourage their involvement. For instance, we have been organizing annual fundraisers over the past three or four years. Each year, 400 to 500 people buy a ticket and participate in our fundraising event, and we give them books on the topic to inform them and teach them things they can discuss with their children. As Ms. Moore mentioned earlier, we had four children's books translated. So children talk to their parents about it. I think children can often help us change habits.

In addition, guests of honour participate in our activities. Last year, Luc Vigneault was our honorary patron, and he gave a speech. He is a well-known name in these circles. He has schizophrenia, but he is doing well. He gives speeches and works in the community. I think those kinds of interventions open things up when it comes to discussing the disease, raising awareness, improving the situation, demystifying things and making people see that it's just a disease like any other and should be talked about.

The Bradley family agreed to lend its name to the foundation we are in charge of. That's one example. They are very well-known people, community leaders. They agreed to talk about it and have attended every year. They visit organizations that carry out projects we fund. That accessibility helps us get closer to those who are affected. It breaks down prejudice and helps advance the cause.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Lise St-Denis Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

I have another question for you.

Do you have contacts with people from other municipalities—in Quebec or the rest of Canada—who are interested in your project?