Health Committee on June 18th, 2015

[Dr. Sarah Henderson]

To the best of my knowledge, this is the only study to look at temporal trends in lung cancer mortality related to radon over time. We couldn't find anything else in the literature that was like this when we published it.

As part of the end of the study, we really encouraged other regions where there is a lot of radon to try to do the same thing with their data, to make sure that what we're seeing is true and not just some strange artifact of what happens in British Columbia.

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Okay.

I'm just curious, have all federal government buildings been tested? Does anybody know the answer to that?

[Prof. Anne-Marie Nicol]

I think I know the answer to that. Most of the buildings have been tested. Kelley Bush probably has a better answer to this, but I believe the majority of them have been tested or are being finalized as being tested, yes.

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

You've proposed that we simply build out new residences and replace old residences as our priority strategy. May I assume that once you either build a new home to the correct specifications or remediate an old home, essentially for the life of that residence you don't have to...?

Your head is shaking, Ms. Nicol. When do you have to test again?

[Prof. Anne-Marie Nicol]

I'm not a radon remediator—I'll just put that out there—but one thing we're grappling with is that even with the new building stock, the building code does not have a requirement to test the home before people occupy it. In part that's because as you're building a home it's open to the air. Having a point at which the house is tested before an occupant enters is an important piece that's still being sorted out.

After the home is built to code, we still need to make sure it really is radon-resistant. Research in B.C. has found that in some cases the newer homes actually were higher than they had expected to begin with, so changes have been made and recommendations made in B.C. to fix that. But the building code is new, and it will go through growing pains. Understanding how effective it actually is will take a little bit more time.

[Dr. Tom Kosatsky]

Just for clarification, that's without a fan. If you build a home with the pipe that goes up to the ceiling and out the roof, and put in the fan, you're very likely to lower your concentration to negligible levels. If you just build the pipe and don't build the fan, you don't know what will happen.

The other thing is that because it's a passive system, you might help a bit or you might not. In some cases, you might even increase the level of radon in your house, especially if you open up the pipe and use it for your sump pump or a drain of some sort, as people do without knowing what it's for.

[Prof. Anne-Marie Nicol]

To clarify, the building code at the moment does not require a fan, just a pipe.

[Dr. Tom Kosatsky]

It does not require a fan, that's right.

[Prof. Anne-Marie Nicol]

So you can imagine that it would....

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Has any research been done following remediation for perhaps older homes? How valid is the measurement—

[Dr. Tom Kosatsky]

There's a bit, yes.

[Dr. Sarah Henderson]

A student of mine actually talked to the primary contractor in British Columbia and looked at all of his pre-radon and post-radon tests; incredibly effective in terms of—

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

How many years does it last?

[Dr. Sarah Henderson]

How many years does it last? I think the point is that it will last as long as the system is well maintained, just like any other system in the home. Your furnace will last a long time if you put maintenance into it and make sure it's working properly. Radon reduction systems are very simple, really. It's just ensuring that the fan is operating correctly.

[Dr. Tom Kosatsky]

B.C. has looked at schools 10 years after remediation, and they've stayed low.

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ben Lobb]

Good.

We're coming right near to the end. Mr. Toet and Mr. Clarke haven't had a chance to provide any comment. Do you have anything you'd like to add for the committee here?

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I just wanted to touch on one of the items that came up from Ms. Nicol.

You talked about why people weren't testing and one of the things I heard was this whole aspect of labelling. Was that part of what you did in any of that research?

One of my concerns with the whole labelling aspect, which we already run into now, is the stigma with homes that have been remediated from grow-ops. You have this stigma in Manitoba that a house will carry for the rest of its life. You could have spent $100,000 remediating the house and going right back to the basics and it will still carry that label for the rest of its life. You can't even get a mortgage for that house. Is that one of the things you've also heard people are afraid of with this whole radon thing, that if we start to label it, we're going to run into this same issue where that house will carry the stigma for its lifespan?

[Prof. Anne-Marie Nicol]

I think one of the things that the real estate agents are concerned about is that if someone has a house that tests high, then no one is going to want to purchase that house. But the evidence in the States where there are requirements for disclosure has been that people actually prefer a house that's already been fixed. With the corollary of asbestos, if you bought a house that had asbestos but has now been remediated, you're going to feel much better about being in that house than having to start from the beginning and testing it yourself.

It doesn't appear to be a stigma, at least in the United States, where people are required to disclose whether or not a house has been tested.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I could ask you a lot more questions but I think Mr. Clarke wants to get a quick one in too.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thanks very much.

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

One of the questions I have for you, Ms. Nicol, given that I come from northern Saskatchewan, relates to the high levels of uranium that we have, especially in northern Saskatchewan. In northern Saskatchewan a lot of the first nations and Métis communities have high cancer rates. Now it could be radon, but regarding the communities themselves, you mentioned that you had done a study in northern Alberta, but have you guys looked at northern Saskatchewan? We have a lot of myths out there: it could be from the radon, it could be from the food, it could be from the smoking, it could be from a number of environmental factors. Have you looked into that?

[Prof. Anne-Marie Nicol]

I personally have not, but there have been people across the country who have done work on first nations and Métis housing. There are people who could answer that question better than I could. It depends on the quality of how well the houses were built. Also, if houses were built badly but have lots of ventilation, that makes the risk of radon less than if they were enclosed.

[Dr. Tom Kosatsky]

It dissipates.

[Prof. Anne-Marie Nicol]

It dissipates. There are groups that are actually trying to assist first nation communities in this. I could provide you with information about that.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Yes, please do.