Evidence of meeting #103 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was products.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
We'll call this meeting to order.
We're going to continue first of all with our clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-228, pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, February 14.
(On clause 5)
I'm going to go right to clause 5. We have no amendments for clause 5—
Yes?
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
I thought we didn't get to vote on amendment CPC-4, which was an amendment to clause 5.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
I'm sorry, you are absolutely right. We are still debating amendment CPC-4.
Do we have anybody who wants to debate it?
Ms. Gladu.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
It's surely not to debate, but perhaps to refresh the minds of those who are voting.
We heard a lot of discussion that said we don't want to impact advertising to adults; we want to restrict advertising to children. This amendment basically clarifies that we don't want to unreasonably limit access to an audience other than children.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
Are there any other comments?
(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 5 agreed to)
Now we will go to clause 6, and we have amendment CPC-5.
(On clause 6)
Ms. Gladu.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
We heard testimony that many of the sponsorships are of a long-term nature, four and five years, and so to make sure that they are not unduly impacted by the legislation, we want to extend the coming into force date. That's what this amendment does.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
I have bad news.
Bill S-228 would come into force two years after royal assent. The amendment tries to replace the timeline with December 31, 2024.
As the House of Commons Procedure and Practice says, in the third edition on page 774:
...an amendment to delay the coming into force is admissible as long as the delay is considered to be reasonable and not seen as an attempt to thwart the implementation of the provisions of the bill.
In the opinion of the chair—and I had a little help—the proposal would drastically increase the time elapsed before the bill would come into force. The amendment is therefore inadmissible.
Thank you very much.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
3:30 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
I'd like to move an amendment to the preamble replacing line 32 on page 2 with the words:
Whereas it is widely acknowledged that market-
and then adding after line 40 on page 2 the following:
Whereas it is necessary to review and monitor the effectiveness of this Act, particularly in light of new forms of advertising; And whereas persons who are at least 13 years of age but under 17 years of age are also vulnerable to marketing and its persuasive influence over their food preferences and consumption and it is also necessary to monitor and review the advertising of foods and beverages to that age group;
This basically supports an amendment that was put into the substance of the bill.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
In general, have we been told how much it's going to cost to enforce this bill? Does anybody have any costing ideas on this?
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
3:35 p.m.
Karen McIntyre Director General, Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
At this point in time we don't, but when we start to draft the regulations we have to do a cost-benefit analysis as part of our regulatory procedures, so we will know then, but we do not at this time.
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I'll just summarize some of my thoughts here, and then I'll leave it for the rest of this bill.
It's nothing against the author of the bill. I have great respect for the author of the bill; and for those who are going to vote for it, that's their business. However, if you look at what this bill is doing and what it will do, it is going to create probably the largest loophole in the 10 years I've been in Parliament to allow things to be in or things to be out, and members of Parliament will have no idea why one product or one company is allowed to advertise and another company is not allowed to advertise. If they have a full government relations team, if they have a full team of lobbyists, maybe they will, or maybe they won't. The sponsorship side has been taken out just since this bill was introduced. Now it's just left to advertising. When we talk to advertisers, they say that digital advertisers aren't even interested in doing this, but Health Canada is working with them.
It's probably quite obvious that the government will vote for this bill, and that's their business, but I just think when we do this and we leave it up to regulation, as we did and we had a good discussion at the last meeting that this will be done by regulation, we don't have a definition of “unhealthy food”. We never did get that. There are many things that have not been completed. The officials who were here at our last meeting could not give us an idea about what “unhealthy” or “healthy” would be, that it would be dealt with after the passing of the bill, and so on.
We're abdicating our role as parliamentarians when we allow such a massive loophole to be created that will be completely passed without any oversight at all, from the purview of members of Parliament. In addition to that, you could also argue, what's the point of a member of Parliament? We're sitting here basically voting for the biggest loophole ever, that just says, “Hey, bureaucrats”—and nothing against public servants—“public servants, you go ahead and do the whole thing.”
My only opinion on that is that there are so many dollars at stake, and we just asked the simple question about how much this will cost to implement, but we don't have an answer, primarily because we have no idea what we're trying to implement. That would be a starting point. Nonetheless, be that as it may, we know the votes and we know the way it is.
Again, I'm all for a healthy lifestyle, exercise, a balanced diet, and so on. I have kids of my own. I get that. I understand the idea of this bill, but from a practical standpoint, as it may or may not be passed today, it accomplishes very few of those goals. Nothing against Timbits, but the mere fact that kids will still have hockey jerseys on them saying “Timbits hockey” really misses the point of what maybe the bill was trying to accomplish.
Anyhow, I may be all right, or I may be all wrong, but I've had my say. That's what my job is.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
I wonder if our panellists have any comments about the process to design these regulations. What is the process?
3:35 p.m.
Director General, Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
It is a Treasury Board directive that we follow in terms of how we develop all regulations. We go through a gazetting process. We develop the policy, we draft the regulations, and it goes for a formal consultation in Canada Gazette, part I.
Prior to doing that, we do full costing. That is all included in Canada Gazette, part I, in the regulatory impact analysis statement. We would do that analysis.
The information on costing is received from the industry itself, and then that analysis is completed and goes into Canada Gazette, part I, for a 75-day consultation period.
We analyze the comments we receive, along with looking at addressing or tweaking, or making changes to the regulations as necessary, depending on what type of information we receive. From there, it's published in Canada Gazette, part II, where it becomes official regulations. That's the promulgation step.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
In the consultation process, members of Parliament could make their comments at that time.
3:35 p.m.
Director General, Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
Yes. Everyone is welcome to provide comments.
3:35 p.m.
Director General, Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
Yes.