Evidence of meeting #11 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pharmacists.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Okay.
Do you have any sort of indication of where that percentage point would lie?
4:55 p.m.
Senior Nurse Advisor, Policy, Advocacy and Strategy, Canadian Nurses Association
No.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Len Webber
Ms. Ashley, if you could provide that information through the chair, we could distribute it to the committee.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Okay. Here we go.
What costs do you think would be associated with offering the full range of pharmacists' services that are offered right now through private care if we were to move that into public care? You said $6.6 billion. Do you think that's fully comprehensive?
4:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Pharmacists Association
It's not a matter of what I think. It was the consultant who is the expert in the field who thought that was the appropriate price, and we have no reason to question it.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Pharmacists Association
That wasn't for pharmacists' services. There's a separate conversation around pharmacists' services, which I alluded to. They have not been costed. That's the medication management and the medication adherence.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Right. We would have to account for that in a pharmacare program, would we not?
4:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Pharmacists Association
You don't have to. We highly recommend that you do. There's not much point in having a national pharmacare program if you're not ensuring that people are using medications appropriately.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Len Webber
I'll have to cut you off there, Ms. Harder.
We will move on to Mr. Whalen and then Mr. Davies after that.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you all for coming. We all appreciate so much what you and your members do to help promote health for Canadians, your work on this issue, and your very detailed submissions. We are all very appreciative of your efforts. There are lots of questions.
I'm going to share one minute of my time with Mr. Eyolfson at the end. If someone could remind me, that would be great.
I have a couple of questions for Ms. Ashley.
With respect to the plan that has been put forward by the Canadian Nurses Association, there are certain aspects that I see as very fruitful. On our side of the House we're very interested in closing these gaps in some way, shape, or form, to help Canadians receive the full scope of care they need. This is something that we're committed to. At least, I am personally committed to it.
We want to make sure that this is operationally achieved with the type of excellence that provides Canadians confidence that they're gaining something and not losing something in this endeavour. When I look at one of your recommendations or requirements, I'm wondering whether it's just nice to have or is actually a requirement. It's that the scope of prescribing be extended beyond physicians, surgeons, veterinary surgeons, and pharmacists to nurses. Nurses are already very overworked. Is this division of labour that we have currently appropriate? Is it appropriate to extend these other duties to nurses?
4:55 p.m.
Senior Nurse Advisor, Policy, Advocacy and Strategy, Canadian Nurses Association
Perhaps I could make a point of clarification. Legislation across the country allows nurse practitioners to prescribe medication, full formulary. They're almost close to full formulary in Ontario, and it's the only province.
That's not something that is new. In actual fact, it allows for areas where physicians are not located, because of access points, to provide access to Canadians.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Okay. That's great. Thank you for informing me on that.
With respect to electronic health records and making sure the scope of service can be provided, do you see gaps across the country where the lack of electronic health records in some provinces is making it difficult to know the full benefits and effects of prescribing practices?
5 p.m.
Senior Nurse Advisor, Policy, Advocacy and Strategy, Canadian Nurses Association
Certainly. I think our pharmacist colleagues here spoke about that as well. This is where the team approach comes into effect.
An electronic health record allows all providers to have access to what medication a patient is on. While a patient might be seeing many different health care providers, the pharmacist may end up being the point person who could make sure there are no contrary indications or polypharmacy occurring.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Okay.
Is your organization satisfied, Ms. Ashley, with the level of oversight provided by a pharmacist in ensuring that generics are being appropriately used? Would you consider that this aspect of your plan is being addressed by the code of ethics of the pharmacists?
5 p.m.
Senior Nurse Advisor, Policy, Advocacy and Strategy, Canadian Nurses Association
I wouldn't want to make that judgment call on my colleagues, but I certainly think that's again an opportunity to work together and ensure that a patient has the appropriate medications that they need and can afford.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Okay.
In terms of ways that we can pay for pharmacare, do you believe your membership would be open to the idea of a dollar-for-dollar reduction in compensation paid if that dollar-for-dollar value is provided in health care benefits through a universal pharmacare plan? If you could answer that quickly, I could get an answer from Ms. White.
5 p.m.
Senior Nurse Advisor, Policy, Advocacy and Strategy, Canadian Nurses Association
We have not asked that of our members, but certainly, if we're looking at ensuring that people have access to what they need and it integrates with the other systems that are being looked at, yes.
5 p.m.
Board Member, Canadian Health Coalition
I'm sorry, but I wasn't clear about the dollar-for-dollar part of that.