Health Committee on Dec. 4th, 2018

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Naloxone is used as an antidote for fentanyl, but there is nothing for methamphetamine. The police down in East Hastings say that when they use naloxone on some of these patients who are overdosing, they come out of their drugged state and then become violent because they are angry. They are angry because of the fact that they have been taken off of their high when they worked so hard to get it.

Would that be one of the reasons people are migrating over to methamphetamines, because it's a long-lasting drug for them?

[Sarah Blyth]

Yes. In the Downtown Eastside there are a lot of people who use whatever is available and cheapest. I've done so many overdoses—you can't imagine—and I don't see people get up and be violent that way. People get upset. Sometimes they cry. They don't know what's happened to them.

It's all in who's standing there above them, whether they're gentle and kind to them, and reassuring. If you wake up and don't know where you are, and there's a police officer hanging over you, it might be a bit scary for some people.

I'm not really sure, but I can tell you it's all about how you approach the situation.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Now we're going to go to Mr. McKinnon for five minutes.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thanks, Madam Chair.

Ms. Blyth, you operate an overdose prevention site, not a safe consumption site. Is that correct?

[Sarah Blyth]

Yes. It's an overdose prevention site, but it is a safe consumption site. People can use drugs, and we observe them to make sure that if they overdose, they're rapidly responded to.

We started it because there were so many overdoses in front and in the alley where I was working.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Is there a technical difference between the two designations?

[Sarah Blyth]

Not really, no.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Where is it, exactly, that you operate?

[Sarah Blyth]

I operate in the alley in the Downtown Eastside. There are two alleys that are the most used by drug users. I was working at another social enterprise, and people were knocking on our back door.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Is it near to InSite?

[Sarah Blyth]

It's about two blocks away.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Does there need to be more of these kinds of sites in the Downtown Eastside or elsewhere in the Lower Mainland?

[Sarah Blyth]

Yes. They've just put one at St. Paul's Hospital, so that's really good. It would be great to have them in hospital areas, as well, where people can come and have.... They're very simple to operate.

We have drug users who take care of each other. They get paid to be volunteers and to help each other. It really works out well, because you're paying people and they have a routine. It actually helps them to get their life back. They're watching each other. They learn how to use Narcan and they can bring that back to their communities. It helps take the burden off the hospital staff in that the right people are dealing with those overdose crises.

Especially when they're having psychosis, I find that people in crisis are much more responsive to people they know from their own community and people they trust on a regular basis.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Vancouver is seen as the epicentre for the opioid crisis, whereas Winnipeg is the epicentre for meth. Are you seeing a growth in the meth problem in Vancouver, or is there any kind of a shift from opioids to meth?

[Sarah Blyth]

There was a recent study showing it was on par, but I would say that about half of the people we see in the Downtown Eastside use meth to some degree.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Is that an increase?

[Sarah Blyth]

Yes, it's an increase over the years.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Do you see this becoming a crisis in this locality, similar to the crisis in Winnipeg?

[Sarah Blyth]

Yes.

Unfortunately, there are multiple crises going on right now with different drugs in general. More and more people are using drugs. Fentanyl can be in anything. We can test meth and find it in that. It's in crack cocaine. A lot of people smoke meth. When fentanyl is smoked, it seems to have an effect whereby the user drops immediately.

We really have to think about doing things much differently than we ever have in this crisis of all drugs. It will save taxpayers so much money in terms of ambulance rides and long-term health, if we just get people safe access.

They've proved it at Crosstown Clinic with their 100-people program. They're not doing survival sex trade all day. They're not doing survival drug dealing. You're removing the criminal element from it and the going to jail over and over again, just by giving people safe access to drugs. It's like giving people needles. They have people they can come to. You can do it in a low-barrier way.

I have a medication management licence. I can hold drugs and give them out to people. It would be very simple and very cheap, actually, to do it, if we just were able to do it legally.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

You said that we need to do something that we haven't done before.

Is this what you're talking about?

[Sarah Blyth]

In our safe injection site, if we were able to give the 700 people who come a day something that we know the dosage of and that we know isn't contaminated with pig dewormer, rat poison and all kinds of you can't imagine what. They're injecting it into them. It causes all kinds of problems.

When they start getting a clean supply of drugs, then we can start to work back to what the issues are. They can be issues of severe mental health or they can be issues of someone having an accident, cancer or any reason people get into using opiates or drugs in the first place.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That's your time.

Now, we'll go to Mr. Lobb for five minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Again, to Ms. Blyth, do the people coming into these injection sites bring their own drugs?

[Sarah Blyth]

Yes, they do.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Is there a way that you guys can test to see what...?