Health Committee on Dec. 11th, 2018

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I wanted also to add, in joining with everybody around the table, that we find this practice to be horrible. I think the minister has spoken quite strongly about it in the House.

I also want to advise the committee that both the Minister of Health and the Minister of Indigenous Services have written to all the provinces and territories and to the related medical associations asking them to cease and desist the practice. Those letters are being sent.

I think it also would be worthwhile to get those responses back from the provinces and territories, and from the associations. I think that would be an important part of a committee deliberation. Otherwise, if there's an agreement to cease and desist the practice, it really has become a bit of a moot point.

That's the only other thing I would add to the conversation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Mr. Ouellette.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette]

I have a number of questions, Don.

I was just wondering if you know what the scope is of the status of women study they're doing right now.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

My understanding is that they're just hearing from department officials, like we are. My other information is that the indigenous affairs committee voted down that attempt. I think the only other thing going on right now is the status of women committee is going to be hearing from officials of that department.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Mr. Ouellette.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette]

Are we meeting with the same officials and asking similar questions? If they're meeting with the officials from the health department and we're meeting with officials from the health department, I could conceivably see that we'd be meeting with similar people who are going to say similar things. The point, for me, is that....

I have no issue with Parliament actually looking into the subject, pushing the provinces and asking the RCMP. I actually also think there's a public security issue related to this. I'm just concerned that our time might be better used on something other than meeting with officials. If someone's already done it or is doing something very similar, why would we repeat the same type of work? Would we conceivably find anything different? Might there be different answers that come out of the bureaucracy?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I just want to interject here. We were talking about it here at the head table. Status of women is hearing from indigenous services, not from health. This will be different.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette]

Okay. That clears up something very important for me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Mr. Lobb.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

In addition to everything that everybody else has mentioned, I'd also wonder, when something like this happens, who paid for it. Is it Health Canada that's paid for this? Is it the indigenous department that's paid for it? Is it the province? I see in Saskatchewan there were 60-plus sterilizations performed. Is it the province that pays for this? Not that the cost matters, I'm just trying to say there should be some responsibility attached to doing that. Did somebody knowingly sign off on something like this? I think this is atrocious, and I think it would be nice if the department could come and tell us, “Yes, we can confirm that Health Canada wasn't involved. We didn't know,” or if it's unfortunately the other way around, “Yes, we do know it was signed off, approved, etc.”

Not that this is going to cure any problem—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I'm sure you'll ask that question when they come.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Okay, hopefully they can answer it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Dr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

At this point, could I have the amended motion read back so that we're in agreement as to what it is?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

It's that, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee invite department of health officials to provide a briefing, at the earliest opportunity, on the forced sterilization of indigenous women in Canada.

Mr. Davies, you're next.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I want to raise a couple of things. I'm pleased to see the cease and desist letters. It would be nice if we could get copies. I don't know, Mr. Oliver, if you, as parliamentary secretary, can get copies for the committee of that.

I just want to say that I'm concerned that it's not enough to make the situation moot. We know there are allegations that forced sterilizations were occurring as recently as last year. It's illegal, says the Supreme Court of Canada. Telling a province to cease and desist is not sufficient. They were doing them when it was illegal to do it. I think we need to inquire into the scope of this, how often it is happening, how broadly it is happening and who is making these decisions. Is it provincial officials or is the federal department making these decisions and authorizing or signing off on them? Is there federal policy involved? What about accountability?

An order to cease and desist would remind provinces of the law and to quit breaking it, but I think there's much more that needs to be done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I'm going to let you say that.

[Karin Phillips, Committee Researcher]

One thing that I think would be worth distributing to the committee or at least having translated, then distributed is the Boyer and Bartlett report, which was the external investigation into what happened in Saskatoon. It's a very good report. It's very objective. It also explains some of the things that.... I would have it distributed doing this study. It's worth a read. It will answer at least some questions going into the study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Mr. Ouellette is next.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette]

In the health branch under the rearrangements with Crown relations, Indigenous Services and Indigenous and Northern Affairs, I believe Health Canada had a component: FNIHB, the first nations and Inuit health branch, which was transferred into Indigenous Services.

How does that play? I suspect they would have a lot of the answers.

If we're calling officials from the health department do we also want to have at least an official from FNIHB there who can answer questions as well?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Ms. Sidhu.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Status of Women have heard from the indigenous population. If we could share that report that would be beneficial for us too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I was just wondering if the motion should be amended again to take out the word “indigenous” so it just says “women” so we are as broad as possible. We would study the forcing of women, because I think it's not necessarily just indigenous women.

Could we vote on it?

If we get that report we could read it over the break and pick this up in February.

If I don't get a chance, I would like to wish everyone a very merry Christmas and happy new year.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Marie-Hélène Sauvé]

I have a quick question. When we're talking about reports from the status of women committee, were you just talking about the Evidence from that specific meeting?

They just heard from these officials yesterday. If there is going to be a report, it's not going to be any time soon.

It's just the Evidence I could get.