Health Committee on June 1st, 2016

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, my biggest concern is basically the cost. I'm just wondering whether my colleagues around the table feel that we would get more from actually going versus from using technology to get the testimony in order to have these organizations present.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Here's my thought on that.

The time we had the presenter from British Columbia by video, I just felt that she was not part of the proceedings. She didn't have a presence. We weren't able to explore what she had to say, and I think she had a lot to say. I just felt that the people who were here got the attention and she didn't. That's what I felt.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Is there a way, though, we could maybe conduct the meeting a little differently to prompt people. I see that even among witnesses here, some are a little more aggressive when they come here. They've been here before. When they want to contribute something, they—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

They have to warm up, too, before they—

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

We're a pretty tough group.

I'd like to hear from other colleagues how they think it would enhance the study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Also, we don't have an amount because we don't know which one we're talking about and we don't know when. I think we should talk about where we think is the best value and the timing, and then we'll talk about how much it's going to cost. Then our researchers can put a value on it. I don't have to make this presentation tomorrow, but the meeting is tomorrow. I'd like to at least inform them that we're thinking about it.

Do we have a comment on these destinations?

Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Well, to Colin's point, I appreciate the ever-present lens of asking the hard question about whether it's necessary. I think that's important, because I think there is unprofitable travel and there's profitable travel, and it's a wise question to ask. There's no question in my mind that if we're really going to understand what's happening in a place like the U.K., we have to go there. A witness on this might have an hour, and of that time they have five, six, seven minutes to answer questions. Imagine being in the U.K. for two days, where you're going into a room with health policy experts and leaders, and you have three hours with them to fully brief you and answer all your questions. My position is that absolutely this is essential for this committee. If we really, truly want to understand what they're doing in other countries, then the only way to do that is to actually go there.

I'm going to suggest a bit of a hybrid. I like option one. Since we're going to be there, I would—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Excuse me, the bells are ringing, and I need unanimous consent to continue for 15 more minutes.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Is it a 15-minute bell or a half-hour bell?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

It's a half-hour bell. We'll go to 5:30. Is that okay with everybody?

The bells start at quarter to.

[An hon. member]

Do you want to do maybe another five minutes?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'll be quick.

I would add Netherlands to option one, because when we asked the witnesses where to go, it was pretty common to hear that we should go to the U.K., any one of the Scandinavian countries, and the Netherlands.

I like the idea of going to New Zealand. I think Japan is out. Japan has, from what I understand, a very different system. They have very different private health.... I haven't had a chance to read very much of their report. I think we can get to three different jurisdictions in a very economical travel package if we go to the U.K., the Netherlands, and Sweden.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

You're saying the U.K., the Netherlands, and Sweden.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I like option one with the Netherlands, because they're very instructive and they're close.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I just wanted to echo that. I think we heard that U.K. and the Netherlands.... And I think Sweden is interesting. I have a quick additional point. I agree that the lens of affordability has to always be on these, so I like that option. Often part of what you get when you visit, because I've done this in my hospital career, is to meet with the national health system, the political structures. You need to understand how it's being administered and couched politically in different countries because that has a very direct impact on how it's executed and delivered.

It's not just “tell us about your formulary system”; it's “let's understand how the health system works in England or the U.K.”, and you can then get a better understanding of how it's being applied.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Also, we'll get to talk to a lot more people and get a much broader perspective.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Rachael.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I understand Mr. Davies' point, but I actually would disagree with him with regard to his travel recommendation. I would actually say Japan is worth going to for the exact reason that he mentioned it's not. Its system is very different and more complex. Whereas the others might be more similar to some of the things we've heard here at this committee, Japan's is very different. For that reason, I actually feel that it's necessary to put our boots on the ground and see it first-hand so that we can fully understand the complexities of their system.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Excellent.

Mr. Webber.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

I guess my comment would be that perhaps we could do the different options in smaller groups. Some of us would go here and some of us would go there, and we cover the whole base. I'll throw that out there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Dr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I was just going to concur with what Mr. Davies said. I like that option; it being cost-effective, as it were. I also like the idea of possibly splitting us up so that some would go to one and some would go to the other. I think both are good options. I really like the option of the U.K., Sweden, and the Netherlands systems.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Mr. Ayoub, you were next.