Health Committee on May 2nd, 2019

[Crystal Fach]

I think that some of the problems I've talked about are that we don't do a lot of data collection on specifically transpeople. We tend to group our whole community in one. I know Rainbow Health Ontario has done some, but it's such a small sample, and that's what I'm talking about. More data collection needs to be done on trans populations, because we don't have a lot of information out there.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I have another question.

If people in the gay community—men or women—stay in the closet as long as possible to achieve economic autonomy, to get a job or to get an education, does that economic autonomy, acquired through that work or education, allow them to have better health? Have you noticed if, for example, openly gay people who have a job and a stable economic situation are healthier?

[Dr. Tinus Wasserfall]

I think it's a double-edged sword.

Yes. A lot of gay people defer coming out because they want to have education and they want to advance their lives and not be in fear of being—

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Rejected.

[Dr. Tinus Wasserfall]

—rejected by family or cut off financially.

I think the longer people are not themselves can also lead to more mental health issues in the long run. The longer you are not who you're supposed to be and the longer you suppress yourself, the more other psychological issues come up. That's why we see a lot of mental health disease and, unfortunately, addiction. I'm talking about the gay men. I think that's part of it. You cannot force anybody to come out about their sexuality, but they defer it and that leads to other issues long term.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Do you see a difference in your practice between those people who are economically well off and those who are not?

[Dr. Tinus Wasserfall]

Yes, but that also goes for the general population. Generally, the better you do financially and the better educated you are, the better your health outcomes. Yes, for sure, in the gay men's population that is true. They have better health outcomes with better education and economic status.

I don't know if deferring coming out is helping that. I think it can go either way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

That finishes our seven-minute round. We'll go to a five-minute round

Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

I'm actually not a regular member of this committee, just for the benefit of our guests. This is my first opportunity to be part of this study. I'm not sure how many meetings there have been prior to this one. I wanted to put that out as context, because if some of my questions are very basic, that is why. I don't have the background on this study that some of the other members on the committee would, but I certainly do appreciate your being here and sharing your experiences and knowledge with us.

I guess I will ask some basic questions. I won't direct them at any one individual. All of you can answer them or any of you who would like to answer them can do so as well.

I will start by taking a look back and then a look ahead. That's where the questions will come from.

It's been really clear to me, listening to the experiences that you've had or that you shared of others that you're aware of, there's a long way to go in terms of how we allow people to be themselves in our society.

We've certainly come a long way, as well. I think back to where we were 20 or 30 years ago and where we are now. At that time, if you think about athletes, entertainers or actors and people like that, they would shy completely away from, as we would say back then, coming out of the closet. That certainly is something that I don't think we see anywhere near to the same degree now, and there are all kinds of other examples we can give of that.

From that point, would any of you disagree with me that we've come a long way over the last 20 or 30 years? I understand we have a long way to go, but would any of you disagree that we've come a long way?

[Dr. Tinus Wasserfall]

As I stated at the start, I'm a gay married man, so yes, we've come a long way.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I just want to make sure that nobody disagreed, because I want to give you the opportunity to disagree and tell us why.

[Crystal Fach]

I think the lesbian, gay, bisexual—the sexual orientation—part of our community has come a long way, but the trans movement has really just been starting over the last few years.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

That's fair.

I want to take a look at the progress that has been made and get your take on it. Anyone can answer. Has that been because as more people have come out to be themselves, society has become more accepting, because society has changed its views on things?

We all had that experience of knowing more people who have come out or however you want to put it. Again, I apologize if my terminology is incorrect. I don't have the background on this study. Is that something government has done? Has government produced that change or progress, or is it some combination of the two? Does anyone want to give an opinion on that?

Mr. Baulkham, you look like you wanted to start. Whoever would like to, please go ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Ms. Fearman.

[Loretta Fearman]

First of all, I would like to state that 40% of homeless youth still identify themselves as LGBTQ2I, so I don't know that society has come as far as we would like it to. I am a very open and accepting person and have been my whole life. It took my children, aged 15 and 17, some time before they came out. There's still a lot of fear and stigma. I still see a lot of unacceptance, especially for the trans community. I still hear parents and people saying that it's a phase. I think there's a long way we have to go, and—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Do you mind if I interrupt? My apologies, but there's just a limited amount of time. I do want to get to how we have a long way to go and what that looks like. I want to get to that, but I'm trying at this point to establish that there has been some progress.

Everyone seems to acknowledge that there has been some progress. I would certainly say we've seen that. I'm trying to get a sense as to what you think drove that progress. Was it something government did or was it a change in the attitudes of society that generated the actions of organizations that are advocating on behalf of those impacted? Whatever it is, I'm just trying to get a sense of that first. I'm trying to look back.

I want to give you this opportunity, but I want to start there. Do you have any comments on that right now? I can come back to this later if you'd like. Would you like to make some comments on that looking back piece? Anyone else can comment as well.

[Loretta Fearman]

I think government changes have been good and have been part of it, for sure.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Is there anything specific you wanted to point to on that?

[Loretta Fearman]

I'd point to human rights, as far as same-sex marriage is concerned. I think that was huge.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Okay.

Is there anyone else?

[Dustyn Baulkham]

I was going to say that it starts with the trailblazers and fighters who are down on the street. The government will ratify it and make that the legal side of things, but it's the people on the street who are changing people's minds and fighting for what we need. That's really where it all starts.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I think that's a good way to—

[Dustyn Baulkham]

Sometimes the government is a little bit behind in some of that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

The time is up.

Now we'll go to Mr. Ouellette.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much, everyone.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today. I'm very grateful.

The committee heard from witnesses who pointed out that access to health care for LGBTQ2 people can be difficult due to a variety of factors, including living outside major urban centres. Dr. Mark Gilbert told the committee that sexual and gender minorities usually support and are inclined to use online services and new technologies.

You also mentioned that, Dr. Wasserfall. You recommend that the Government of Canada support the implementation of digital health initiatives to improve access to sexual health care for LGBTQ2 individuals. In your opinion, what would be the impact, if any, of increased use of telemedicine or digital health initiatives to access various types of health care for LGBTQ2 individuals in your regions?