Evidence of meeting #153 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was medical.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB
Thank you.
I have only 16 seconds, so I'll just pass it on to the next questioner.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all for being here.
Ms. Joe, you said that hospitals need indigenous midwives to protect women from racism and sexism.
How can we better train our medical professionals to ensure measures are developed to safely include indigenous culture in the health system?
4:40 p.m.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
It pleases me no end to see more indigenous people going into the medical profession. We need to encourage that even more.
We also need to put in training programs so those who are already in the profession understand the histories of our distinct indigenous groups here in Canada. I think that when we provide those supports, a safe environment for indigenous women to give birth, that's where the change is going to start.
It's us, it's government, the communities showing goodwill to develop the trust of indigenous women, especially those who have been discriminated against for decades.
I hope that answers your question.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Thank you.
What role could the federal government play to improve access to these types of services, Ms. Omeniho?
4:40 p.m.
President, Women of the Métis Nation / Les Femmes Michif Otipemisiwak
The federal government could play a key role in helping to ensure that institutions across this country develop policies that provide cultural safety in trauma-informed work within all these institutions so that when indigenous people go there, it isn't based on a racist view of who they are, but on finding a supportive, culturally safe environment.
I don't think it's just indigenous people who need to have that cultural safety. We're a diverse country and we need to start being more responsible and having cultural safety for everybody who enters these institutions so they never have to fear places where they're supposed to be going for safety, protection and health.
We should all be able to go to a hospital and not be worried about the issues of trust. Hopefully, one day we'll be able to get there, but I think the federal government can lead some of the work around developing those policies in guiding these institutions and some of the medical professions.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Ms. Stote from Wilfrid Laurier University, in your view, what steps could be taken to include data collection regarding sterilization of indigenous women, including reporting instances of forced sterilization?
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Professor, Women and Gender Studies, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
What steps do I think could improve data reporting? From my understanding, going back at least 10 years, you already have the data. It just needs to be put together in a certain way to present it in terms of knowing the rates of sterilization across the country for aboriginal people on reserves, status Indians, to be specific. My understanding is that data already exists. It just needs to be culled in a particular way.
Do I think that this is the complete solution to understanding the issue? Do I think the data alone tells us whether forced sterilizations are happening or not? I don't. Is it possible to identify clusters. Potentially. More important than that, I think the work on the ground needs to happen, because numbers are one thing, but people are another thing.
There are a lot of innovative things that could be done, such as putting people into hospitals, whether they're actual birth practitioners, doulas or midwives, but also cultural supports for people who are navigating western medicine as indigenous peoples and as other marginalized or racialized people. It isn't just indigenous peoples who experience that power dynamic in western medicine. I think beyond the numbers, the human aspect is equally, if not more, important.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Thanks very much.
These are very serious allegations, and I know this has been discussed at different levels over at least the last couple of years.
I want to ask a question of you, Ms. Lombard, in regard to the 100 or so people who have come forward in part of your class action. I understand the comments everybody's made about being uncomfortable going to the RCMP and putting forth what happened to them. I know Mr. Davies asked that question, and said he talked to Ralph Goodale about it, as well. He kind of got the runaround both times he pursued it.
As you're counsel, could you work with the local branch in Regina or Saskatoon, and sit down with a detective who would be suitable to you, so these 100 or so people could put forth what happened to them, and there could be progress? Is that a possibility?
4:45 p.m.
Lawyer, Semaganis Worme Lombard, As an Individual
Absolutely. If my client so instructs, I would do that immediately.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Is there a way you could encourage them, or somebody else could encourage them? Is there a way to get these people to do this? This isn't the silver bullet to the problem, but it would help turn up some criminal heat, potentially, on those who did this.
4:45 p.m.
Lawyer, Semaganis Worme Lombard, As an Individual
I can say that most of the women I've spoken to are strong advocates for specific criminalization, and one in particular has had the courage to tell her story to police. That took some time, and some identification, with respect to the right person to hear her out.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I thought I heard somebody mention a forced termination, as well. I don't want to use the word “allegation”, which I've seen in some of the news stories, but are there cases where people have had forced abortions? Is that the idea, too?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Okay.
I see that the Saskatoon Health Region has done an investigation. Was that a satisfactory investigation, or was it to gloss over things, to cover their legal or financial liability?
4:45 p.m.
Lawyer, Semaganis Worme Lombard, As an Individual
I'm not privy to the details of their investigation, but I can say that because some of these occurrences happened in the past, it's very difficult to acquire the proper documentation to examine the allegations. For those that are more recent, perhaps not so much.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Maybe you can't say this because they are your clients, but can your clients remember the hospital, dates, times and doctors? How much detail can they recall?
4:50 p.m.
Lawyer, Semaganis Worme Lombard, As an Individual
Most often, and very logically so, their sterilization coincided with the birth of their last child, and so usually, they know when it happened. Further to that, they don't always remember the name of the doctor. Frankly, I don't remember the name of my doctor, and that was just four months ago.
4:50 p.m.
Lawyer, Semaganis Worme Lombard, As an Individual
If they have access to their medical records, that's probably helpful to jog their memory. I can say, though, that I think when you submit documentation to obtain a birth certificate, you have to.... Vital statistics would have information with respect to the delivering doctor. That much I know.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
As for the time range, I probably missed this. Is this spanning 40 years or 50 years? I know there are some recent cases, but what type of a time range are we looking at?
4:50 p.m.
Lawyer, Semaganis Worme Lombard, As an Individual
I've heard from a woman whose daughter has since passed, but it happened to her, her daughter and her mother. That's the time span I'll put out there. It's intergenerational, from what we have heard.
The earliest occurrence, I think, that I heard was from a woman in her seventies. It had happened to her daughter as well.
