Health Committee on Sept. 20th, 2016

[Sarah Brown]

It's my belief that an overdose is a medical emergency and it's not a criminal act. I think that needs to take priority at an overdose scene. Police do often arrive at overdose scenes for a variety of reasons. Fire crews arrive as well in the city quite often.

I don't think we are going to cause an increase in trafficking of drugs with this bill. I don't think we're going to encourage more people to use drugs, or we're going to encourage people to continue to use drugs. I think it's addressing a specific medical emergency. We're not addressing it well right now, because not enough people are calling.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Thank you.

Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

If we could amend this bill today by adding in protection from prosecution for breaches of probation or of parole, would you advise this committee to do that? Do you think that would save lives?

[Christine Lalonde]

Absolutely.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'm seeing all witnesses nod. Okay.

We had some mention made of supervised injection sites, and I think we're all starting to recognize that the opioid crisis requires a generalized suite of responses. There's no magic bullet, but it seems there's a bunch of separate things we can do that would help address the problem. I'm wondering if it would be the witnesses' suggestion that former Bill C-2 be repealed or at least amended to streamline the application process so that communities or municipalities that want to open supervised injection sites can do so much more quickly and without as much administrative bureaucracy.

[Sarah Brown]

Yes, it needs to be repealed. There are 26 labourious steps to open a supervised consumption site in any jurisdiction in this country and that is slowing things down. It is making it difficult, and we only have two or three sites. It absolutely needs to be repealed.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Dr. Buxton, what is your opinion?

[Dr. Jane Buxton]

I agree completely with no reservation.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Dr. MacKenzie.

[Dr. Meredith MacKenzie]

I agree.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Ms. Lalonde.

[Christine Lalonde]

I agree, and when it comes, it doesn't have to be a whole site. We can use a room in certain community centres to do things like this.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'm trying to get a bit of a handle on the types of situations we're trying to capture with this bill. We have street level drug use by experienced drug users, and we're also hearing stories of young people who are maybe inexperienced drug users and who are getting captured by fentanyl. Can you give me a rough idea of the percentage of each of those?

Where are the overdoses happening? Is it 90% on the street among experienced drug users and 10% among inexperienced as an example, or what? Do you have any idea?

[Christine Lalonde]

In Ottawa and surrounding areas we have moms who are asking for naloxone outside the city in Manotick because they know their children, teenagers, and university students are experimenting with this stuff. Once it's said that it's one thing, it's hard to tell the percentage of drug in it or what else is in it. It's a powder and it's just passed on.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I want to just read a quick example of something that's happened in the United States:

Last July, Shane Ward overdosed on heroin and other drugs while getting high in a van with three friends. When he passed out...21-year-old Devan Miller got behind the wheel and took off, calling 9-1-1. She was told to pull over, which she did, [by police] instructing another friend to perform CPR on Ward while they awaited an ambulance. When help arrived, Ward was taken to a nearby hospital and probably owes Miller his life.

Rather than being offered amnesty from low-level drug charges—as llinois's Good Samaritan law suggests...Miller...was charged with “aggravated battery” under the apparent contention...that she helped Ward inject himself.

Miller was also charged with...drug possession, and drug delivery....

Now, what I'm worried about is if it gets out on the street that people are charged with other things besides drug possession, do you think that may have a rebound effect where all of a sudden drug users may be less likely to call police because of that fear?

[Dr. Meredith MacKenzie]

Yes, I think that will be the result. I think of my own patients who have actually done federal time for exactly the scenario that you're describing. But I think there's another scenario in addition to what you're describing, and we spoke about it this morning.

There are many people who are using very dangerous medications and drugs in unsafe ways who have no criminal record whatsoever. So I do believe there are parts of this that will support those folks to call 911. I'm just thinking of the kids in university. We're talking about drugs that are entirely different from any other drugs that you've ever seen before, where a grain of salt is enough to kill you. That is what's being pressed into pills and is being taken at pill parties.

I'm not saying this is perfect, but it is a step in the right direction.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

That concludes our meeting today with our presenters. On behalf of the whole committee, I want to thank all of you for your incredible information and the experience you bring to tell us about the world you work in and how you handle it. Very few of us, with the possible exception of one or two, have ever experienced what you go through. I want to thank you very sincerely for your valuable presentation, and I hope you come back soon.

We're going to take a break and then we're going to do clause-by-clause study. I should say there's another meeting here at 11:00, and we have to be out in 10 minutes, so it's going to be tight.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I call the meeting back to order.

You will have to bear with me. This is my first clause-by-clause study. We have with us Mr. Philippe Méla. He is going to help us do this.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of clause 1 is now called upon.

[A voice]

No, Mr. Chair.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Chair, I don't have that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Oh, I'm sorry, the chair calls clause 2.

(Clause 2 agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Shall the short title carry?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Shall the title carry?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Shall the bill carry?