Health Committee on Feb. 7th, 2017

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

It would be helpful if you gave us your expert witnesses that you suggest we look at.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Cordelia Anderson is American, so—

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

If you could get it in, that would be great.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Okay.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

There's the potential of boiling the ocean here. While I think this is probably an ocean that should be boiled, to be honest with you, it's not what your motion is. In your motion, you spoke specifically to “online violent and degrading sexually explicit material” and not just sexually explicit.

There's been a lot of wandering in and out of the whole pornography industry here, but you are very much talking about the “violent and degrading”. It's that second category that Mr. Davies identified that we are targeting.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

For sure.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Okay. What's your definition of public health?

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

I do believe there's a UN definition of public health and there's also a Canadian—

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

There's a World Health Organization one as well as the Canadian one.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

That's the one I've been using.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

You mean the World Health one?

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Yes.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Okay.

Again, getting down to the focus of this, we are examining the public health effect of these things. That would be the science of preventing disease, prolonging life, and promoting health. If I understand the motion, you're asking us to come back to the House to say that we have looked at current research and that these are the impacts we have seen in current research on public health from this type of material being easily accessible and online.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Yes, and perhaps with some recommendations on how to—

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

That's new. I didn't see recommendations. I think the first challenge we're going to have is that we don't have doctors on the committee and we can't commission—well, we do have a wonderful doctor, but we're not in the business of doing health research.

I think my reading of this, with regard to the impact or effect on public health and with regard to recommendations if there are any, is simply to determine the impact. If we come back with recent research proving that there is an impact on public health, to me that's a very powerful statement in the House of Commons that then alerts all the public health agencies and whatnot across Canada that they need to do something about it versus us coming up with recommendations.

I would think that is starting to boil the ocean again, because how do you limit access? How do you control access? What are the penalties? It's certainly a direction out to all the public health agencies, provincial and territorial, and to Canadians to begin to take action.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

I would agree with you fully that this is going to be the basic building block, the foundation of where we go from here.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

If there is a problem, let's now get Canada to work to fix it. Is that what you're after, confirmation that there's a problem?

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Yes.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Okay, super.

That's all I had, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

All right.

Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

First, I just have to comment that in the last parliament, the Conservative government voted against putting warnings on asbestos products exported overseas. Now I hear you telling this committee that you'd like to see health warnings on dangerous products like pornography and I hear you talking about an expanded role for the state in government. I'm glad to see the evolution of the Conservative Party in this Parliament.

I also want to distinguish this pornography versus violence rating. Someone mentioned that pornography is a $97-billion industry. Much of that is obviously consensual, non-violent depictions of sex. I want to be clear. That's not what you want us to look at. Is that correct? You want us to look at violent, degrading pornography.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

I would recommend you don't look at any of it—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I mean you want us to examine or study—

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

I think my answer to the last question would be to set a foundation. Listen to the leading researchers, listen to the leading health professionals on this, and say that—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I get that, Mr. Viersen, but listen to them on what? Do you mean on violent, degrading pornography or pornography generally, including pornography that is non-violent or non-degrading? Do you have a problem with the latter?