Evidence of meeting #67 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was legal.
A video is available from Parliament.
Director of Policy, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
We think that in addition to the brand name, the package should include the cannabis strain, the THC and CBD content, the amount of the product in the package, basic manufacturer's information and, of course, a health warning and other government-mandated information.
Liberal
John Oliver Liberal Oakville, ON
Really, what we're doing is taking the colour out of the brand name. That's really the thing that we need to add to this legislation.
Director of Policy, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
It goes far beyond colour. We're talking about fancy fonts. We're talking about package shape and size, opening style; all of these attributes that convey brand images. It's not only about colour. There's a very comprehensive list of restrictions in the government's consultation document on plain packaging, and I refer you to that.
Bill S-5 does not have detailed language in it. That will come in the regulations.
Conservative
Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB
Ms. Tilson, where are the props that you showed coming from?
Director of Policy, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
These are all packages available in Canada.
Conservative
Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB
These are obviously illicit cannabis or....cigarettes.
Director of Policy, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
They're both. These are all cigarettes that are available on the legal market. I brought them as examples of how the industry is able to skirt what they claim to be very tight packaging restrictions, and as an argument in favour of plain and standardized packaging. Without that very rigid requirement, the industry continues to innovate and appeal to young people, and mislead consumers about the risks of the product. There's no reason to believe the cannabis industry wouldn't do the same.
Conservative
Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB
I see from the one here that it looks like a cannabis leaf right on the front. Is that tobacco?
Pippa Beck Senior Policy Analyst, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
No, these are images we pulled off the Internet. These are products that are available in the United States in jurisdictions where they don't have strict packaging and labelling requirements.
Conservative
Director of Policy, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
This is cannabis, this is tobacco. I'm sorry for the confusion.
Conservative
Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB
Mike Hammoud, you said you feel that branding should be allowed because it is more difficult for the illicit community to counterfeit, to copy. Is that the main reason why you think branding should be allowed? I know that you said generic packaging is not an effective tool, and that branding should be allowed. Is it because of—
President, Atlantic Convenience Stores Association
If you make something very easy to make.... I know we're comparing ourselves to jurisdictions across the world, but Canada is unique because we have some of the highest contraband rates in the world when it comes to tobacco, and the experience that we have in the tobacco sales.... I personally have been selling tobacco for over 30 years in my convenience stores. My brothers and I and my parents have been in the business for about 40 years. I have experience with selling tobacco. I have experience with the changes that have happened in our industry over the last 40 years. Today we have far fewer smokers than we did 10 years ago, and we've done that by working with governments and doing things.
The display bans that came into effect that we had to do, again, were very tedious for retailers, but didn't really make a difference on the sale of the tobacco, and I think it's very difficult for people to say anything different unless they work in the business. All that it did was cause a lot of harm and pain for retailers who had to try to find the stuff, so it becomes extra work. When it comes to plain packaging, our interpretation is that government wants to move people over from an illicit product to a legal product, so you want to be able to distinguish between what is legal and what is illegal.
President, Atlantic Convenience Stores Association
So if you want to make it look illegal, you might as well keep it illegal. What's the difference? You should be able to move a product and have quality assurances, and there should be things in place to show that this is a legal product. This is why it's here.
We already have over 50 factories in this country right now producing tobacco.
President, Atlantic Convenience Stores Association
And they're selling it illegally. You don't think for a moment that, as soon as you come up with a standardized pack.... Think about that for a moment. You're going to come up with a standardized pack that could be made very easily by anyone. What would stop them from duplicating that product? And, if you follow the same route of what you're following on Bill S-5, you're saying that everything inside the pack isn't going to have any labelling either.
So how do you distinguish between, inside the pack, what's legal and what's illegal if the package is plain? It doesn't make any sense.
Senior Policy Analyst, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
As we've said, packaging for cannabis, as we're advocating for tobacco, will be in plain and standardized packaging, but we're not saying it's going to be in a baggie like you find on the illegal market. It would have the features that we've talked about. It is also important that it will have the tax stamp that has covert and overt sophisticated measures in place, and this wouldn't be any different for cannabis, so consumers will be able to tell based on the fact that it has that tax stamp.
I also just want to point out that there have been studies done in Australia following plain and standardized packaging. Our colleague said that it was confusing, and it really slowed things down for retailers, but there have been studies done on this, and they're smart people, and they were able to accommodate the changes very quickly. The experience in Australia has been very positive, and there's lots of good evidence to support those statements.
Director of Policy, Non-Smokers' Rights Association
I just have one last comment about the contraband market in Australia. All credible evidence shows that there has been no increase in contraband. The only sources that said the contraband market there has increased are those funded by the tobacco industry, specifically reports by KPMG that come with a disclaimer that they are not to be used for any purpose other than what the funder decreed because the terms of reference were so narrow that they cannot be used to draw any broad inferences.
Conservative
Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB
Right.
You mentioned brand name. When you say brand name, are you suggesting that the licensed producer's name be on that package? What do you mean by brand name? Is it the producer of the product, or is it the name that they've called this particular leaf? I don't know what you mean.
