This has been a long line: no pharmacare until there's cost control.
I think the evidence is fairly consistent, both in terms of the analysis that's been done by the PBO and independent academics and from the international experience, whether it's the VA in the United States, the U.K.'s NHS, Australia's PBS system, or New Zealand's PHARMAC, that there's no real cost control without pharmacare.
At some level we have to recognize that you ramp up to a system that will cover all Canadians. That's the way you actually ramp up the savings that we're talking about in these models. You can't realize those savings. Manufacturers will not give you 25% off on prices if a major payer in your system will pay no matter what anyhow. Essentially, there's no real cost control without pharmacare.