Health Committee on Feb. 26th, 2018

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I want to turn to Dr. Strang.

Dr. Strang, in 2016 you told CBC that the real problem behind e-cigarettes is that they re-normalize the smoking habit. I think I heard in your testimony your concern that there may be an increase in the use of tobacco among youth who start with vaping products. Can you elaborate on that concern?

[Technical difficulty—Editor]

Dr. Strang, I don't know if you can hear us. We can't hear you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Dr. Strang, we can't hear you. Can you hear us? Just nod if you can.

Perfect.

No, we can't hear you yet. We're working on it.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Have you inadvertently pressed “mute” on your microphone?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Have you touched your microphone by any chance, Dr. Strang? That's a no.

Dr. Strang, we're going to put you on hold for a few minutes because we can't seem to nail down the problem.

Mr. Davies, if you would, please go on to another question.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Cran, if I heard you correctly, I think you said consumers are not swayed by package design. Really? On this product, it says “a thin and slender format”. It's called “Superslims”. This is clearly packaged for young girls. You don't think that has an impact on young girls?

[Bruce Cran]

Well, it comes from polling. We polled on it, and that's what we were told.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I've a quick question. We looked on your website. I can't seem to get your annual budget. Polling costs money. Where does your group get your funding, Mr. Cran?

[Bruce Cran]

We have donors, and [Technical difficulty—Editor]

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'm just wondering if you receive any money at all, indirectly or directly, from the tobacco industry.

[Bruce Cran]

Not one cent. No.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Okay. That's good.

So where do you get your money? You said donors?

[Bruce Cran]

We have donors. [Inaudible—Editor] ...with a budget.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

How's my time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Your time's up.

Now we're going to Mr. McKinnon.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Ms. Doucas, thank you for your excellent brief. It was very well done.

I noticed that you focused in this brief mostly with vaping, particularly nicotine vaping. [Inaudible—Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

We have a technical issue. Everybody has to operate their own mikes because the remote system isn't working. If you're speaking, please turn on your mike; if you're not speaking, please turn it off, as I will.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

Again, thank you for your presentation and your brief. You were speaking on nicotine vaping in particular, but the amendments deal with vaping more generally.

I'm wondering if these regulations or this legislation should deal more specifically with nicotine vaping, nicotine, and perhaps THC situations, or do you feel that allowing vaping advertising and promotion and so forth in general is a gateway into using other products, such as nicotine products?

[Flory Doucas]

The Quebec Coalition for Tobacco Control doesn't have a position on cannabis. We're part of the Quebec Public Health Association, and there is a project and spokespersons for cannabis. That being said, our understanding currently is that the nicotine vaping devices are illegal and the ones that don't contain nicotine were legal, but in practice, we saw all kinds of things happening.

We believe that the comprehensive approach to regulating these products would be to cover both, whether they contain nicotine or not. Please consider the fact that Bill S-5 applies the same provisions to the device as to the liquid, for example.

I think you're alluding to the fact that we are looking to eventually move people away from smoking cannabis to perhaps consuming it in different forms....

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

What I'm trying to drive at is whether this legislation should control and regulate vaping in a broad way, or should it be focused on things we know are harmful, such as nicotine delivery approaches? I guess vaping—

[Flory Doucas]

I think we should be concentrating on nicotine vaping devices, because nicotine is the basis of an epidemic that's killing 45,000 Canadians. That said, the legislation, Bill S-5 as it is written currently, covers the e-liquids or the accessories regardless of whether they have nicotine or not.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Okay, I understand that. I guess I'm wondering if they should. Should they be broad, or should they be focused on nicotine?

[Flory Doucas]

I don't think it would be very helpful, for example, if we had regulations or provisions that allowed for advertising of e-cigarettes to be promoted—lifestyle advertising, or whatever—just because they didn't have nicotine. Clearly that would signal something, and that would evoke the parallel product that would essentially be assimilated to that product.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

I'll move to Mr. Cran. You seemed to rely in your testimony a lot on opinion polls you've done among your membership. For example, your position is that plain packaging will increase the number of counterfeit products out there. Do you have any evidence to support that, or is it just polling?

[Bruce Cran]

Look at what's happened in Australia and France. We feel that polling is talking to the consumer directly, and that's what we've done. If you want copies of those polls, I'd be happy to send them to you.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I guess polling is not evidence about what actually works and what doesn't. Polling is people's opinions about what they've heard—