Evidence of meeting #15 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was response.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Is it safe, then, to assume that the NESS was not properly monitored and stocked by the Public Health Agency of Canada?
Vice-President, Health Security Infrastructure Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada
The NESS had been monitored and stocked as it was mandated and funded to do.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Would you agree, then, that we failed to keep an adequate stockpile due to lack of attention and poor inventory, based on your earlier comments?
Vice-President, Health Security Infrastructure Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada
No. The NESS was doing well what it was mandated and funded to do.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
The minister mentioned that we didn't have an adequate stockpile. You said it's not due to lack of intention or poor inventory, so then what's it due to?
Vice-President, Health Security Infrastructure Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada
I think it was delivering on what it had been mandated and funded to do.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
But the minister said it was inadequate. Why was it inadequate?
Vice-President, Health Security Infrastructure Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada
The focus had been on preparation for CBRN events—chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear events—and that was what provided them—
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
Back to my first question, these were set up in emergencies such as infectious disease outbreaks, natural disasters and other public health events, which you confirmed would be something like a pandemic.
Vice-President, Health Security Infrastructure Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada
Yes, and our focus at that point, based on the more recent evaluations, was on preparation stocking for antivirals.
Conservative
Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB
But in preparation for a pandemic, and we had inadequate supplies....
Vice-President, Health Security Infrastructure Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada
The focus had been on antivirals. With hindsight, I would have liked it to have been different, but we were not mandated nor funded to do this.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you, Mr. Jeneroux.
Mr. Van Bynen, please go ahead for five minutes.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you.
I'd like to continue my discussions again around the PHAC group and Public Safety.
I think we all admit that we are facing an unprecedented pandemic. At one time or another there might be the accusation that we were overplanning, had we not been faced with a situation such as this.
Have we had any preliminary learnings, both from Public Health and Public Safety, that will allow us to course-correct as we go through?
Following that, how often do both of those groups and other groups get together and have an integrated approach to an emergency situation? An example is municipalities that are mandated every year to undertake a mock emergency. Are those types of exercises taken across departments or provinces?
When is there a plan to do a post-implementation evaluation, a post-crisis and after-action review?
I'll let you deal with all three questions. I'm more concerned about what we are doing for the next time rather than pointing fingers at what wasn't done.
I'll start with Public Health.
Vice-President, Health Security Infrastructure Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada
Concerning ongoing learning, we are taking note. We're doing some interim course corrections as we go, and you can actually see that, but particularly, we're still learning about the virus as well. Our course corrections aren't necessarily with regard to our initial response, but as we learn more and more about the virus. For example, more recently, we've been moving our focus, from just symptomatic people to include asymptomatic ones, as we learned that people who were asymptomatic can transmit. There is, as a matter of course, a need for that ongoing learning and course correction.
We participate regularly with provinces and territories and federal government departments in tabletop exercises and more serious real-life exercises. There's a whole range of things that we do in terms of the preparation and the actual emergency, that planning and preparedness. Evaluations will be a huge part of this, and they will definitely inform where we're going in the future.
Liberal
Assistant Deputy Minister, Emergency Management and Programs, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
To add to what my colleague mentioned, the government operations centre was started from day one to involve our team looking at producing an after-action report. We have some members of the team who will be there to take some notes and to prepare that report once we know the time is right.
In terms of learning and how to do things differently, when I reflect on it, I would have had a stronger surge capacity plan for more organizations to mobilize quickly and faster.
You mentioned the point on exercises. We have a team in the government operations centre. We work with other organizations like the Public Health Agency in conducting some tabletop exercises, including for pandemics. We had one about six months ago that involved U.S. and U.K. colleagues and the chief science adviser. We really try, but it's a very small team doing tabletop exercises, because we have national exercise plans. We could do more of that planning.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Okay, thank you.
I know that we had raised earlier concerns with respect to the Union of Canadian Correctional Officers regarding mental health. I am wondering if I can hear from the Canadian Police Association as well.
Do you share the perspective that we heard? What are the recommendations to deal with mental health and to help deal with these types of crisis moments?
President, Canadian Police Association
Yes, that's a significant concern for our members. I think police officers who are working in larger urban centres have access to more resources and to worker services with more capacity; however, it becomes a much bigger challenge for police officers and personnel who are working in more rural and remote environments.
We are doing some things through the Canadian Institute for Public Safety Research and Treatment, which has been supported by the government in the past. All parties are trying to provide access to appropriate services online so that people working in rural and remote areas can have access.
We are delivering regular Internet-based town halls and webinars so that members who need assistance can access it that way, but it is a significant concern and a priority for our organization.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.
We'll now go to Mr. Champoux for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to come back to the issue of possibly releasing certain inmates—low-risk, obviously—to lighten the more densely populated areas in the prison environment. We know that mandatory confinement isn't necessarily the best solution and that there have been outbursts, even riots in some countries. I imagine we want to avoid that. So I have a question for Mr. Wilkins, Mr. Thibault and Mr. Stamatakis.
If there was a major outbreak of COVID-19 in a prison institution, as we're already seeing in Joliette, and you had to either confine or move the inmates, I understand that releasing the prisoners isn't a desirable solution for you. What other options are available to you, then? For example, do you think you could use facilities such as army barracks or unoccupied hotels? Do you have a plan B? I'd like to hear what you have to say about that.
National President, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers
Again, this comes down to local contingency plans. Quite often, those aren't shared with the Union of Canadian Correctional Officers, by the Correctional Service. We raised the same questions. I said in my opening statement, “What if?” We have all of these questions.
We have a significant outbreak of COVID in Mission Institution. We have a significant outbreak in Joliette Institution. Of course, the very sick individuals quite often might be transported to an outside hospital under escort from correctional officers. In B.C., at Mission Institution in particular, we're trying to work around a special unit that's outside of the hospital and only for correctional officers and the inmates they're escorting. There are a lot of issues around that.
We have taken a reactive approach. When we get a big case, a big outbreak, we're reacting to that situation. It's not so much a proactive approach in the contingency processes of it because we don't have the answers to some of these questions.
I know that in the Kingston corridor, there has been some communication from the military there that they'd be willing to open up barracks for any overflow. I'm sure those conversations all happen behind the scenes, but we're not really included in them, to be quite honest.