Health Committee on April 30th, 2020

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for sharing your expertise and time with us today.

Dr. Fowler, if I may begin with you, in an April 16 article from CBC News, you were quoted as saying:

There is substantial risk people will see the numbers levelling off and will receive the message that this is time to breathe a sigh of relief. If we hadn't instituted public-health measures, there is not necessarily a lot to separate us from other parts of the world.

In your view, is now an appropriate moment in the outbreak for provinces and territories to contemplate easing public health measures?

[Dr. Robert Fowler]

I think it probably is a reasonable place to start to plan for easing of the public health measures, but I think the principle of a lot of caution going into easing them is very important. People are not used to this kind of public health measure, the weather is getting better, people are naturally looking to get out and congregate a bit more, and I think that we are still in a very risky period. Even though the numbers have levelled off, it doesn't take very long to find a place where we're having outbreaks. The most obvious example is in our long-term care homes.

I think it's reasonable to start, but I would say we have to start very cautiously and very slowly and be reactive to what we find. It's not as though there's a lot of history to draw upon here, but I think the population is likely to do it anyway, and it's probably good to try to take a very measured approach and to react to what we see.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Dr. Gerdts, the World Health Organization recently published a brief stating, “There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection.”

The WHO subsequently clarified that it expects that most people who are infected with COVID-19 will develop an “antibody response that will provide some level of protection.” When do you believe we will have some clarity with respect to whether or not COVID-19 infection confers immunity and gives us an indication of the depth of that immunity?

[Dr. Volker Gerdts]

That's unfortunately still going to take a little while. I can tell you that some of the animal studies to look at reinfection are under way. You infect some animals, then you wait for a little while, let them develop immunity, and you reinfect them. In humans, this is something that is now a part of the Solidarity study and others that are going to address those questions, but it's going to take a little while before we have those results.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Dr. Annan, in an April 24, 2020, op-ed in The Hill Times, you wrote about scientists that:

...they've started to use the viral genome and the mutations it accumulates like a series of fingerprints, tracking the virus' spread and transmission patterns within communities and around the world.

Genomics tracks these changes so we may also determine if new, potentially more severe strains are emerging.

Have any “new, potentially more severe strains” of SARS—CoV-2 been identified to date?

[Dr. Rob Annan]

Not to my knowledge, no, but of course, one of the themes here is that there is still lots we don't know. No, at this point here, it's my understanding there—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Dr. Annan, could you speak more carefully into your microphone?

[Dr. Rob Annan]

Absolutely.

At this point here, I'm not aware of any of what we call more severe strains caused by mutations, but if one were to emerge, we'd want to catch it pretty fast.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Are you aware of how many strains of SARS—CoV-2 have been identified globally at all?

[Dr. Rob Annan]

It's gets into a little bit of a definitional problem, I guess, and what you call a strain. There are thousands of variants now that you can distinguish, based on these mutations. I don't know whether they've been classified into distinct strains. I would defer to my colleagues, who may be a little bit more familiar with the viral phylogeny.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thanks.

Dr. Gerdts, I know that VIDO-InterVac has received at least $23 million in public funding from the federal government to develop a COVID-19 vaccine. Were there any conditions attached to that funding you received from the Canadian government that would require you to make that vaccine available to Canadians or to implement a specific funding structure?

[Dr. Volker Gerdts]

Those negotiations are still under way. I don't know if there is anything at the moment in the contract, but, as I stated publicly, we're making it a high priority to ensure that our vaccine is available to Canadians.

Maybe I'll let Paul Hodgson, our director for business development, jump in, as he is the one who is really spearheading that specific contract.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Before Dr. Hodgson answers, I'll just throw in a second question for him to consider.

Who will own the vaccine in the end, if you are successful in developing one?

[Dr. Paul Hodgson, Associate Director, Business Development, VIDO-InterVac]

Those are two easy questions, aren't they?

I think one of the key things, as Volker said, is that our goal is to bring us forward for Canadians. There is nothing in the current funding agreement that would stipulate that, but we received Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation funding years ago, and part of our overall strategy in the organization is global access and ensuring that things are made available. At this point we own the, we could say, intellectual property, but it will be a fundamental aspect for us, as per most of our grants, to ensure that Canada has first rights, I guess, or first ability to receive the vaccine.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Okay, if I can throw one last question in—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I'm sorry, Mr. Davies. Your time is up.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I guess I can't. Thanks. I will wait for the next round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

That ends round one. We'll go now to round two and start with Dr. Kitchen.

Dr. Kitchen, you have five minutes, please.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, everybody, for being here today. It's greatly appreciated that you are taking the time to be here and present to us.

I have a bunch of questions for around the table, but I'm going to start with home field advantage and give it to a place I still have very fond memories of from when I did my residency at Royal University Hospital. I do appreciate your being here.

Dr. Gerdts, I'm taking it that at this point in time, you haven't yet received the funding that was announced. Is that correct?

[Dr. Volker Gerdts]

I believe that's correct.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Okay, thank you.

I was very interested to hear you talk about the PPE, and in particular what you've done on the sterilization of N95 masks and the decontamination of them. We've asked the government many times how many masks are being made by Canadians. Can you tell me how many masks every week or every day you would be able to sterilize?

[Dr. Volker Gerdts]

There are probably thousands per week. I think the estimate is between 6,000 and 7,000 if we use some of our rooms that are currently being used for our research. This is where we might be getting into a little bit of trouble. If we were to use the whole facility just for this purpose, we could certainly decontaminate tens of thousands a week, but we would limit the space we can use for our research. It has to be a good compromise in working with the Saskatchewan Health Authority, and between 6,000 and 7,000 is the number we came up with.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

That's fantastic. We actually have a number, and that's great to hear. Thank you for that.

You talked a little bit about antivirals. From what I'm hearing not only from you and the researchers here today but also from others is that because the emphasis has gone to COVID-19, it's taken away from all the other viruses and all the other research out there. A lot of research, the bioscience, etc., is being left behind while everything is focused on COVID-19. Can you tell me whether you have any idea of how many antivirals we need?

[Dr. Volker Gerdts]

How many specifically do we need? I think we need to find a few that really work. At the moment, I think the most promising candidates are showing partial efficacy. They are somewhat helpful in this, but we haven't, as of yet, really found a molecule that completely clears infections. The use right now is really limited to getting people more quickly or sooner out of the hospital, but it's not really controlling infection at the moment.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Where would those antivirals be stored once they were developed?