Evidence of meeting #4 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Karin Phillips  Committee Researcher

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

It's unanimous.

(Amendment withdrawn)

Then we're back to the motion as proposed by Dr. Kitchen.

The motion as I understand it at this point, for which we're looking for unanimous consent so that all our problems will vanish, is:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study on palliative care in Canada; that the committee report its findings and recommendations to the House; and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

Do we have unanimous consent to adopt this motion?

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Yes.

5:20 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

No.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Okay, so where are we now?

Mr. Davies.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Then I will move the motion as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study on palliative care in Canada, including an examination of comparator countries; that the committee report its findings and recommendations to the House; and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

It's the same motion, but I've just added, in deference to Mr. Thériault, the ability for us to look at comparator countries. It's different from the other motion, so I think we should be able to have consensus on it.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

It looks as though this motion is in order.

Dr. Kitchen.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

I would agree with that 100%. It's the same thing, and it adds the comparative part. I'm in favour of it.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Are we ready to vote on this motion?

(Motion agreed to)

We're quickly running out of time. I would like to give Mr. Thériault and Mr. Fisher a chance to move their motions.

Mr. Davies, can we deal with your point later?

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Yes.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor.

5:20 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Mr. Chair, I'd like to move the following notice of motion:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study on why or why not assisted dying should be extended to patients suffering from mental illness; and that the committee hear all relevant experts and stakeholders in order to do an in-depth study on the subject and submit its conclusions and recommendations to the House.

I am tabling this notice of motion because not long ago, the Quebec Minister of Health gave an interpretation of Justice Baudouin's decision. According to her, this decision would mean that, by removing the concept of end of life, necessarily, people suffering from mental illness could have access to medical assistance in dying. The minister suspended this expansion and said that she would wait for the results of the work of a committee in Quebec that will also look at this.

As a legislator, I could use some clarity on this. Depending on the interpretation of Justice Baudouin's decision, there could be such accessibility. As a legislator, I'm not ready to move forward. I would like to be enlightened further, and we have very little time. I don't know if you're aware of this, but it took two or three years to reach a consensus in Quebec on these issues.

At the federal level, it is the judges and the courts who are saying that we need to amend the Criminal Code and the laws to expand access to medical aid for dying. We only have four months to fix all these problems.

We deserve to hear from all stakeholders and experts on this so that we can carry out our work. In this way, if the act is revised, the process of reflection will already have begun.

Today, as a legislator, I couldn't make such a decision. This does not mean that we should not hear everyone's arguments. That is why I have split my motions. The cases to which medical assistance in dying could be extended are very broad, but we can do a study to see whether it should be extended to cases of mental illness. That's the one I'm advocating.

We could conduct work that would be complementary to the work of the committee that will have to study and amend a bill. That is why I have tabled this motion. It deserves some thought, and it would be appropriate for people working in the psychiatric field to come and testify, for example. Mental illness is often the poor relation of the health care system. People with mental illness suffer a great deal. They are suicidal and their illness goes through complex phases. Are they able to make a decision or not? Personally, I need to be enlightened about this.

I've been thinking about all these issues for 30 years and I'm having a hard time figuring them out. I imagine that some of my parliamentary colleagues will have the same difficulty as I have.

Let me repeat that the next bill should not give rise to another problem, that of imposing on vulnerable people who are suffering intolerably the burden of challenging the new law in the courts. We should not be singled out again—we legislators—because instead of taking on our responsibilities and drafting adequate laws, we are taking social problems to court.

That's why I need guidance. Our committee's work could be complementary to the work that will be undertaken to amend the act. This could be done in a short period of time.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Dr. Kitchen.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank my colleague for his efforts and the work he's done to separate these motions into separate things, because I agree with him. There are different aspects that impact different groups.

With that said, recognizing how long it took us to get through the last motion, and in respect of the time and other commitments that we have today, I'm wondering if my colleague would mind suspending this discussion until the next meeting such that we could possibly address, in particular, a motion that deals with inviting the Minister of Health to make certain that we have her come to deal with the issues of the estimates and budget.

I'm just wondering if he would mind suspending so that we could make sure that we have that discussed and on the paper, because it will take time to make certain that we get the minister. The minister's time is all over the place these days, and we need to make certain we can get her here at a time that fits in with our committee meetings.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

The motion is before the floor. It's up to Monsieur Thériault, I believe, to table that, and not proceed with it today, before we can deal with another motion.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

I would like to...but I don't want to offend my colleague because I think this conversation is something that we need to do. But, again, I don't want him to take that as an insult. I think we need to make certain we have that done before the end of today.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Mr. Thériault, would you be in agreement with putting this first on the list for the next meeting, and deferring it?

5:30 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Yes, absolutely.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Is everybody in agreement with that?

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

No. This is an important issue. Are we going to continue, or are we finished? It's 5:30 now.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

It's 5:30. It's over. He filibustered his time. He's going to have to resubmit a motion.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

So, we'll agree to start the next meeting and continue from where Mr. Thériault was and talk about this then.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

That's what we just proposed.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Okay. So, will we adjourn?

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

We have to decide what we're going to do for the next meeting, which is Monday.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

On his motion and continue....