Health Committee on March 31st, 2020

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I assume, based on the answer you gave, that we don't have any results following these tests. I'll move on.

At our last meeting, on March 11, I asked the minister how many test kits we had in Canada. Both the minister and Dr. Tam were unable to give me a number, although Dr. Tam's answer was that we have the capacity to do at least 2,400 tests a day and that ramping up, the estimate is that we can do 16,000 a day.

Are we doing the estimated 16,000 tests per day? If we're not, is that due to the lack of availability of the testing kits and the agents, etc., that we need to provide in creating those kits?

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

The actual testing rate in Canada, as was noted, is that we're up to over 225,000, or about 6,000 per million population, which is very much in the very top tier, testing globally. We want to continue to improve on that.

In terms of the testing, it varies day to day but it is on the order of approximately 15,000. Some days it's higher. Work is under way with provinces to expand that lab capacity further.

As noted, we are working on multiple solutions to manufacturing in Canada, and on import of those test kits, as noted via supply arrangements that have worked to contract to ensure we can continue to increase our level of testing.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

How quickly are we getting results as to positives or negatives? How quickly are we responding to those Canadians?

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

The ability to turn around specific test results—the timing—varies province by province as they optimize their lab systems and ensure a turnaround as quickly as possible to Canadians. Work is under way in some provinces to clear the backlog of tests and to optimize their system.

Many weeks ago we moved away from the additional confirmatory tests at the National Microbiology Lab as provincial systems were validated, and they are working on additional efficiencies within them to help ensure that Canadians get their test results as quickly as possible.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you.

As I am sure you are aware, following the SARS epidemic in 2003, the country came up with a number of testing protocols, etc., on how to [Inaudible—Editor] up. That was not only the Public Health Agency of Canada, but also the provincial public health agencies. They developed programs and protocols to be followed as to when another epidemic should happen.

The minister stated that the Public Health Agency of Canada is working closely with provinces and territories to ensure that there is a consistent, evidence-based approach to addressing this crisis.

If this is the case, why are we seeing varying protocols from province to province? Why is there no standardized testing across the country? What steps did the Public Health Agency take to ensure that every hospital in Canada, no matter where it is—local, in rural areas, urban areas, etc.—had in place protocols and procedures to be followed from the very moment this happened?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I'm sorry, that was directed to whom?

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

It is for the Public Health Agency, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Ms. Namiesniowski, please go ahead.

[A voice]

I am sorry to interrupt.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. McKinnon, just to confirm, Pierre Paul-Hus has joined the call. He is now present.

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Paul-Hus will have a speaking slot in the next round.

Ms. Namiesniowski, please go ahead with your response.

[Tina Namiesniowski]

Mr. Chair, in relation to the question that was just asked, since the outset the National Microbiology Laboratory has been working extremely closely with all provincial health labs across the country. From the very beginning they have been worked together to ensure that there was a common approach across the country in terms of a commitment to testing, and quality assurance around the nature of the test that was being undertaken. Members may recall that at the beginning the approach required the National Microbiology Lab to actually confirm the results of tests done at a provincial laboratory level. Since then there has been enough advancement to allow a number of jurisdictions that have the capacity not to have to refer samples to the National Microbiology Lab to be certified as being positive. That now has taken place, and in that context, there have been efforts at a provincial level to allow for tests to happen at a more local level and down to a hospital level. There has been considerable effort expended from the outset to ensure a common approach across the country so that collectively we have a good line of sight as to what is happening at a local level in terms of transmission and level of COVID-19 in various locations across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Dr. Kitchen.

We'll go now to Dr. Powlowski for five minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Let me begin by again saying thank you to all the very many people who are involved in this, including all the witnesses. I know it's difficult work. I know you're trying hard to keep up the good work.

The response to Mr. Kitchen's question was that we're trying to take a common approach among the provinces. Maybe we should have national standards as to who gets tested for COVID-19 and national benchmarks as to how quickly the tests get done. For example, I know with respect to testing that until recently tests that were done in Thunder Bay were taking up to seven days to come back, whereas I was hearing vastly different numbers, such as one day in other parts of the country. So maybe we need to look at setting up those national standards so places like Thunder Bay or Nunavut don't end up with much inferior services compared to other places.

The situation we want to get to is basically something like the one in Singapore, which seems to do a lot of testing. Basically everyone who has cold-like symptoms gets tested. If you look at their numbers, you'll see that they've done exceedingly well. That's more a comment than a question.

Mr. Lucas, in a response to an earlier question, you said that provinces sought help from the federal government with respect to bulk purchases of N95 masks and ventilators. Where are we with that now? I know Ms. Namiesniowski in her earlier remarks said something about the number of ventilators, but the line was very poor and full of static, and I didn't really catch that. Could you give us some specifics on what we're doing with N95 masks and the ventilators? Are the purchase orders in, and if so, what kind of ventilators, how many ventilators and how many N95 masks are we talking about?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

That was a question for Ms. Namiesniowski.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

It's for both Ms. Namiesniowski and Mr. Lucas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Let's start with Ms. Namiesniowski. Please go ahead.

[Tina Namiesniowski]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Certainly, as I referenced in my opening remarks, there has been incredible effort from early on to work with provinces and territories to come together and, on Canada's behalf, to work the international marketplace to secure needed product for front-line health care workers. As everybody has underscored throughout today's conversation, it's critically important that we're able to equip those individuals who are working on the front line, who are so essential to our ability to be successful in the context of COVID-19.

Certainly from the point of view of which items are being prioritized for purchase, very early on—even in advance of potentially getting requests from provinces and territories—the federal government focused its efforts on key items that we knew would be necessary, including the N95 masks and ventilators, among other things.

Those orders are in and have been in for some time. Our colleagues at PSPC, Public Services and Procurement Canada, are working incredibly hard around the clock on behalf of everybody to secure supplies in a global marketplace that has many actors who are also looking to do the same thing.

In addition to the international marketplace, as we've highlighted during this conversation, there are efforts under way also to make sure that we are taking full advantage of domestic capacity and looking to see how, domestically, we can also produce products locally, taking advantage of the exceptional entrepreneurial spirit we have in Canada and using companies, their knowledge and their know-how to also produce product in Canada. That includes ventilators, for example. There has been a lot of effort expended to ensure that we are able to secure the supply that's necessary.

Maybe at this point, Mr. Chair, I could turn to my colleague, Deputy Minister Lucas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Lucas, go ahead, please.

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

Thank you.

I have perhaps just a couple of notes further to the response. One, as I have noted, is that we are working with provinces and territories as well to ensure that there is guidance on appropriate use to protect our front-line workers and to ensure that there is no unnecessary utilization of these critical products. That's why the earlier questions pertaining to establishing COVID-focused hospitals or facilities were critical in terms of the use and protection of our front-line workers.

As noted earlier, we are in daily contact with provinces and territories to understand their needs and to ensure their ability as the supplies come in. As noted, we are working around the clock through PSPC to identify those critical products, to arrange transport and to bring them to Canada so that they can get out to places where they are needed.

I would just note in closing, Mr. Chair, on testing that throughout the pandemic, there has been work on COVID with the provinces and territories through the public health network to establish and update testing protocols as we go along. They have different lab capacity, but we have been working hard to support them to augment it and to optimize their work to ensure there is as fast as possible turnaround for Canadians and that the increasing number of Canadians who need to be tested are tested. That work will continue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We will go now to Mr. Thériault for two and a half minutes. Please go ahead.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I would like to put a brief question to the consular representative from the Department of Foreign Affairs. We are all working hard to ensure that our citizens can be repatriated. I would like to know how many citizens are waiting to be repatriated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Ms. Jeffrey, please.

[Heather Jeffrey]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] waiting all the time. People change their minds. They are registered with us, but they don't necessarily register their intention for repatriation, as opposed to other services, so I don't have an exact number overall. Each mission in each country is continually monitoring and in contact with Canadians in their jurisdiction. I can say that to date we've repatriated around 7,000 to 8,000 and we will have that many more lined up in the coming weeks. The situation changes from day to day as Canadians take different decisions about what their intentions are.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Thériault, go ahead.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

What are the reasons given for their decision to change their minds and not return? Is it because of problems that you can't solve, or is it their decision to stay?