Madam Minister, I know, but—
Evidence of meeting #29 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vaccines.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #29 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vaccines.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
—that can actually provide advice to provinces and territories.
By the way, provinces and territories are free to take that advice or not. In fact, all provinces have accepted the advice of NACI in many different ways. I am glad to see provinces and territories working so closely with the regulatory bodies—
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Madam Minister, given my time, I'm just going to interrupt you.
Today in the National Post there is an article that states:
Officials' mixed messaging more than blood clot risks are undermining COVID vaccine rollout.
A year-plus into the pandemic, “and we’re still having world-class science and medicine undermined by inexcusably amateurish communication.”
How do you respond to that? It has been very confusing for the public, and I am getting a lot of calls and backlash in my constituency from people who don't want to use it. I know we've seen a lot of doctors and others come out and say, “Yes, get your vaccines.” However, these messages are coming from the government.
I'm very concerned about that type of media, the mixed confusion that's coming from different parts of the government, for example, between procurement and health.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
Our government has been very clear that the risks of COVID-19 far outweigh any risks associated with vaccination.
Second, we will be transparent with Canadians as information changes and evolves.
Actually, I think we all have a duty to help our constituents get access to credible information and not to foster fear and sow discontent and confusion. It is very important that—
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
If you're not fostering confusion, why are you coming out and saying that vaccines are not a panacea?
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
Mr. Maguire, it's because they are not. In fact, we need to continue to protect each other through the vaccination process.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
April 16th, 2021 / 2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Mr. Chair, on a point of order, the rules state that a member is able to ask a question and the witness is given the same amount of time to answer without interruption. If Mr. Maguire can't control himself, I would ask the chair to enforce that rule.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Mr. Chair, my questions are very short, so I appreciate that.
Don't you talk about what you're going to say and how you're going to affect the uptake on these things?
I just don't understand the circumstances that Ms. Hajdu and Ms. Tam have talked about. What do you think—
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Yes. Well, had you done these things, we wouldn't be in the problem we're in today.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
Mr. Chair, I appreciate the mocking of my last name. It's very appropriate at this time.
I'll say this: It is appalling that we see Conservative members try to sow division and fear. In fact, what Dr. Tam first said—
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
In fact, what we see is an unprecedented demand for vaccination. Canadians around the country understand that vaccination will save their lives and will contribute to the safety of their community. It is important that we continue to support Canadians to get accurate information in culturally appropriate ways, and that is exactly—
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Mr. Chair, she still hasn't answered my question, so I'll go on to the next one.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
—what we have been doing, including a $53-million fund for local community organizations to work with a variety of different under-represented communities.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Mr. Chair, she is much over time.
You also said that the border measures don't work, and that you shouldn't wear masks. There are different things you've said through communications over time.
I just want to ask Ms. Anand a question about the boosters.
Pfizer has indicated very clearly in previous meetings, and I asked the question about boosters a month or so ago and have gotten no reply yet, that they would recommend still that the second shot be within three weeks. The government has gone to 16 weeks in a decision.
Will we see boosters be necessary? That is the question I asked before, and they didn't say they wouldn't be. Now it has come out that they might need that.
Is it because the efficacy of the drug diminishes between the three and 16 weeks that we would need a third booster sometime within six months to a year?
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
That's actually a question that relates to the spacing of doses. I'm the procurement minister trying to get doses to this country, so I would ask my colleague, Dr. Tam, to take the question, if she could.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Well, it was a government decision, if I could just interject—no disrespect to Dr. Tam.
The situation is because of the timing—
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
2:55 p.m.
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
We have to look at the science and the data. No matter what the manufacturer says, we can make contingencies for the need for further doses a year beyond this one. We need to have the data to look at the vaccine effectiveness, and to see how people responded to their first and second doses. Then we expect both Health Canada and the National Advisory Committee on Immunization to look at that data in order to provide recommendations.
It is too premature to do that. We have to do epidemiologic studies, look at the variants, and then look at how vaccines may or may not need to be adjusted according to what is circulating at the time.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for attending today.
For the level of concern that the Conservatives brought up in having these witnesses here, the best they had in terms of questioning was mocking an individual's name, one of our colleague's names. That's pretty disappointing.
After a decade of muzzling scientists and ignoring the Public Health Agency and ignoring experts, it's clear that Conservative Party ignorance is alive and well today, when it doesn't even seem to understand the evolution of science and the evolution of data. However, here we are, and I'm just very thankful to all the witnesses who are here to work on behalf of Canadians.
I want to get back in the time I have to the Ontario modelling that was raised. In fact, Ms. Rempel Garner left out a very important part of that modelling that was just released. Ontario, for example, has said it would be capable of doing about 150,000 vaccinations a day if it had the supply. Even in that modelling, even if Ontario did 300,000 vaccinations a day, the trajectory of cases was still on the rise; therefore, as has been said by the minister and the doctors on the panel today, vaccinations alone are an incredibly important tool for keeping Canadians safe.
Dr. Tam said that vaccines prevent death and attendance in the ICU, as well as strong public health measures. If the Conservatives were in power, they said several weeks ago they would open up, ignore science, ignore the experts and ignore the data. Even 300,000 vaccines a day in Ontario wouldn't have helped if Conservatives were in power making those decisions.
The U.K. has very high vaccination rates. Prime Minister Boris Johnson has credited lower case counts to both vaccinations and public health measures. Can we elaborate with regard to those strong public health measures in connection to vaccination rates, and how that is going to help?
Frankly, there's a very important piece that hasn't been touched, and I'm not surprised the Conservatives haven't talked about it, because it doesn't fit with their ill-conceived, wacko science data, conspiracy theory type of questioning. However, in and around our health care workers, they are strained and stressed, so it's not just about keeping Canadians safe and getting them vaccinations, but there is enormous pressure from our health care sector.
Could the minister or a member of our team here talk about why the two measures have to go together hand in hand, and why vaccinations are incredibly important and Canadians are committed them? Why do public health measures matter so much, especially for our public health care workers?
3 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
I'll just say thank you for acknowledging the hard work of the health care workers. You're absolutely right—vaccines save lives and stop the spread, but they are not the only solution. We also have to continue to work hard on disease control.
We see that with other diseases, quite frankly. We have very high rates of vaccination for many other diseases, but it takes hard work on both ends. The public health measures, protecting communities, preventing disease outbreak, and also making sure people are vaccinated are extremely powerful tools in the tool box, but we also need other tools. Those include, for example, having safer workplaces, having financial supports to help people stay at home when they're sick, and making sure people feel they have the appropriate access to health care. All of those kinds of things matter.
Thank you for thanking the health care workers, because—you're right—not only is it hard for people when people get sick, but our health care system, as you can see in Ontario, is surging. When we don't take strong measures to protect our health care system, even more people suffer and sacrifice.
I'll turn to Dr. Tam to talk a bit more about the theory behind that.
