Health Committee on April 16th, 2021

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

With the seller's market, did we pay a premium because we were late to the table or because we signed contracts after other countries did? Do you think that had anything to do with it?

[Bill Matthews]

No, I wouldn't accept that at all. In fact, in many cases, Canada was one of the first countries negotiating. That has never been brought up as a factor.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

How come we paid so much more, if we were one of the first countries? How did $8.18 come to be? How did you guys agree to that?

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, again, I can't comment on the comparability, because when you have governments investing directly into manufacturing, like the U.K. and the U.S. did, I'm not sure I can make that comparison.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Did our lack of domestic manufacturing capacity for a virus-based platform vaccine lead to a higher premium with the AstraZeneca vaccine?

[Bill Matthews]

No. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that governments that subsidize the manufacturing of vaccines end up with a different deal, where they're actually—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Did we provide no subsidies for AstraZeneca whatsoever?

[Bill Matthews]

AstraZeneca's not manufactured in Canada, so we're dealing with a straight price-per-dose model here, as opposed to a broader manufacturing discussion.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Matthews, were there any other factors that contributed to the $8.18 a dose?

Did we pay a premium for every other vaccine as well?

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, I'm not accepting the comparison, simply because I can't speak to whether there is a premium here or not.

I can tell you that we negotiated in good faith with all suppliers and it was definitely a seller's market.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Rempel Garner.

We'll go now to Mr. Van Bynen for three minutes.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I'll start off by saying hello.

We're in a pandemic. We're in the third wave, and we need to get medicine in people's hands. We have some vaccine hesitancy around AstraZeneca lately. Some of this has been fuelled by opposition members. We've seen some examples of those questions again today.

Dr. Tam, what can you or your officials share about the AstraZeneca vaccine to reduce hesitancy?

Let's focus on the immediate issue, which is to get people well and keep people well. How can we go about doing that?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

We're really fortunate to have the vaccines. They've been performing very well, particularly all vaccines in Canada—AstraZeneca included. They are very effective for reducing severe outcomes, hospitalizations and deaths. That's really important, particularly for older populations who are at higher risk. That is why everybody should get vaccinated.

We even have a bit of an early signal that if you have highly effective vaccines and you cut down on the number of infected people, asymptomatic or symptomatic, there is a good chance you will reduce transmission. That is some of the initial data that we're really looking forward to. That's also good news.

Vaccines alone can't reduce transmission right now, when there's such a huge amount of force from this virus in this third wave. Just keep up with those personal protective measures and roll up your sleeves. With all these discussions, all I can say is to rest assured that the Canadian regulators and our expert committees are doing their due diligence in providing the advice according to data.

In the end, please roll up your sleeves. Whatever you get in your clinic and what is being offered to you are safe and effective vaccines.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Great. This is a good segue.

I've heard people talking about vaccine monitoring when they are asked about what happens if someone has a reaction to a vaccine.

Can you tell us more about Canada's vaccine monitoring system and how that works once a vaccine is approved for use in Canada?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

Yes, and Dr. Lucas has part of this because the regulators in Health Canada, even though they've authorized a vaccine and continue to have a role in monitoring its safety post marketing, are also asking the manufacturers to provide data on this on an ongoing basis. That's one stream.

The health system that is administering the vaccine also provides their data on any adverse events following immunization to the Canadian adverse events surveillance system. This data comes to the Public Health Agency, where we publish it on our website and share it with Health Canada as well.

Any serious or unusual events reviewed by medical experts are being taken very seriously. This is why, for example, very recently, given the signal of the thrombosis with low platelet event, the whole system was activated and one report was picked up from Quebec. That's one. It's reassuring that the system is actually working and monitoring that safety signal. That is really important.

Then we have active surveillance systems. There are hospital networks that are actively engaged in searching out cases that may be adverse events following immunization, so they can be investigated. There are specialty clinics set up as networks, where patients who may have experienced an adverse event following immunization can receive the specialist advice needed to sort out whether the event was indeed related to the vaccine.

It is actually a multi-layered, interconnected system. That's why I think Canadians should rest assured that anything unusual, any signals, will be investigated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.

Mr. Thériault, you may go ahead. You have a minute and a half.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Matthews, you said it was a seller's market.

Have you spoken to Pfizer at all about the third dose that's needed six to 12 months after the second dose?

[Bill Matthews]

Thank you for your question.

In the beginning, we didn't know exactly how long vaccine protection would last, so we negotiated a contract based on two doses per person. We always had a number of options with Pfizer. As I previously said, we have started talking to suppliers about purchasing updated versions of their vaccines, booster doses and things of that nature.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Do you feel like you were had in the negotiating process?

The company advertised a two-dose vaccine, and suddenly we find out that a third dose may be necessary. Needing a booster shot is understandable, but the situation has changed.

[Bill Matthews]

Bear in mind that, when we were negotiating the contracts, we had no idea which vaccine would work, so we negotiated on the basis of the scientific data available at the time. The data have continued to evolve, and Pfizer is now telling us that another dose may be needed.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Did you request a scientific opinion on whether a third dose was needed? For instance, did you ask Mr. Stewart to reach out to NACI for a scientific analysis of whether a third dose was needed before beginning new negotiations with Pfizer?

[Bill Matthews]

We can purchase many doses of the current vaccine or conclude an agreement for the next version of the vaccine. The talks are ongoing. As Mr. Lucas said, if the product changes, it has to go to Health Canada for approval.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Before going ahead, you will—I assume—request a scientific opinion on whether a third dose is needed, will you not?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Chair—