Health Committee on April 16th, 2021

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Dr. Tam, in response to questions I asked you previously when you were before the committee, you said—much to your credit—that, looking back, you think you waited much too long to recommend closing the border with the United States.

I realize there are jurisdictional issues at play, but given your understanding of the situation in Quebec and Ontario, where do you stand on a potential closure of Ontario's borders and, by extension, the Ontario–Quebec border?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

At a technical level, I have discussions with the chief medical officers of health, and that's to facilitate discussions among the provinces. Interprovincial travel and indeed intraprovincial travel are in their jurisdiction. I have been happy to support some of the deliberations, but it is actually up to Ontario and Quebec.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

You don't have a scientific opinion on that specific issue, or you prefer to let them make their own decisions. I was just curious to know your take.

Can you tell me what you think, nonetheless?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

The virus is transmitted human to human, so any measure that reduces mobility in order to control a third wave is something that provinces can consider.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Dr. Tam, in working with its Quebec and provincial counterparts, the Public Health Agency of Canada provides decentralized coordination. That means information has to flow seamlessly. The Auditor General identified deficiencies in the agency's ability to share data.

What have you done since to improve data sharing, specifically?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

As I said earlier, the public health system is under stress, so even though there was a will to provide information, we were not getting everything we had agreed to, really, with the provinces and territories. However, I was very happy that support of over $4 billion was provided to the provinces.

We have another refresh of the expectations regarding what's to be collected at the national level, including race information and occupation, such as whether a case is a health care worker or not, and that data collection has improved over time. We have a bit of a way to go, but that is improving. We have already started on a pan-Canadian health data strategy and have also established a cloud-based data-sharing platform to assist in collecting information in a more timely and efficient way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We will go now to Mr. Davies.

Mr. Davies, please go ahead for two and half minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Matthews, did Canada pay more or less for our vaccines than the U.S. did per dose?

[Bill Matthews]

I can't answer that question, Mr. Chair, because the nature of the agreements is confidential. Remember, with the U.S. arrangement, in many of its situations, the government actually invested in the companies themselves, so you can't do a dose-per-dose comparison.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Dr. Tam, given that Brazil is currently running such an extremely high case rate, are you concerned that it could be a crucible for an ultrainfectious or vaccine-resistant variant? If so, can you explain why the federal government quietly dropped specific screening requirements for travellers arriving from Brazil this week?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

The situation in Brazil is of international significance. Countries, including Canada, I think, need to participate in multilateral discussions as to how to assist in terms of Brazil's really tragic situation. Some of it might be sharing expertise, but there are other measures as well.

We have instituted many layers of border health protection over time. That includes, as you are probably aware, a series of tests including pre-departure and two post-arrival tests, as well as the 14-day quarantine period stays, including awaiting test results from a GAA.

Very stringent measures are being applied by the quarantine team in terms of a quarantine plan. Those are the really key layers—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Dr. Tam, could I please ask you whether it wouldn't be prudent to keep those extra screening requirements? What's the benefit of dropping them?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

Well, in fact, stringent measures are being applied to every country. I think that was reassessed because the number of arrivals from Brazil is, in fact, pretty low, and the same stringent measures.... By the way, the P.1 variant is found in over 40, maybe 50, countries right now, so you can't just focus on Brazil.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Major-General Fortin, I have a quick question.

I want to be clear. We know thousands of vaccine appointments are being cancelled across the country. Everybody's saying it's a lack of supply.

From your perspective, is the problem right now in Canada a supply bottleneck, a lack of supply, or a capacity issue by the provinces to vaccinate?

[MGen Dany Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Provinces indicate that they require more supply to scale up. Clearly, there are jurisdictions that don't book appointments until they have certainty on shipments, so that avoids their having to cancel appointments when they see a delay in shipments. Others choose another option.

All options work. It's a matter of risk management. It really is the responsibility of those jurisdictions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

That brings question round four to a close. I believe we will have time for a shortened fifth round if it's the will of the committee to do so.

I would suggest we have three-minute slots for the Conservatives and the Liberals, and one-and-a-half for the Bloc and NDP.

Is that acceptable to everybody? Seeing no heads shaking, we will go ahead on that basis.

Ms. Rempel Garner, I believe it's over to you for three minutes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

This question is for Mr. Matthews. It builds on my colleague Don Davies's questions.

An email was just released to the House of Commons committee in a document dump for one of the motions we had in the House of Commons. It's from a Rick Theis, on September 24, 2020. It states, “On [AstraZeneca], folks are reviewing a final MOU right now. Basics are 20 million doses, delivery to start in late Q2/early Q3, and all doses by end of 2021. Price per dose is $8.18.”

Mr. Matthews, why did Canada pay almost double the price of any other country for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

[Bill Matthews]

I'm not sure what you're using as a comparative figure, Mr. Chair, in this case, so I would have to get back to you.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

The European Union paid $2.15 a dose, the United Kingdom three dollars and the U.S. four dollars. Why did we pay double the amount that the U.S. paid?

[Bill Matthews]

There are a couple of things here, Mr. Chair.

Number one, location and manufacturing are important in terms of considering price. As I mentioned before, the U.S., in particular, had some investments in the companies.

The rest I can't speak to, except for the EU. Just remember there are two prices in the EU. There's the price paid—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

You're confirming $8.18 for—

[Bill Matthews]

I'd have to go back and check. I haven't seen that email; I apologize, but I just.... For members, Mr. Chair, on the EU front, I think it's worth noting there are two cost components, the price paid by the member state as well as that paid by the EU itself.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

In terms of facts, for reporting tonight, did we pay $8.18 a dose for AstraZeneca?