Health Committee on April 26th, 2021

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I think all of us have seen some really disturbing incidents of anti-Asian racism. I know in Vancouver I've seen some situations that happened in Richmond, where Caucasians were accosting people of Asian descent and hurling abuse at them. Very rarely do we ever see any charges under Canada's hate crime legislation.

Do you have any suggestions for this committee as to some of the best strategies for dealing with this? Do we need to relook at federal legislation? Is it a question of education? Should there be a national education program on racism? What would you suggest we could do to help address this?

[Queenie Choo]

I think, above all, it's what you just said. I mentioned we need to acknowledge and examine systemic racism across all institutions. We need to collect race-based data in consultation with the communities so that they understand what was collected and how that is being used for improvement.

We need to have adequate funding for anti-racism initiatives, not piecemeal funding but sustainable funding to create long-term impacts.

The other piece is that it's important to build supportive and safe communities, such as funding the initiatives that empower community members to speak out and intervene against racism when they witness it in their communities—supports like crisis counselling and helplines for those experiencing racism and long-term trauma from it.

Last but not least, I think it's so important to fund education about historical and contemporary racism in Canada in all its forms. There are people who are directly affected by racism, but there are people who have no idea how they impact their neighbours, their peers, their fellow community members. It is important. We need this to be all-inclusive in terms of providing support to people, and education and training.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

Committee, that brings our first round of questions to a close. I believe we will have time for a short second round. One-minute rounds for each party generally works out to eight minutes, so let's go with that.

With that we will start with Mr. Maguire, I believe. Please go ahead for one minute.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Dr. Perrault, you mentioned that the closures due to COVID have caused big delays. How many people do you think have died due to a lack of cardiac procedures due to COVID, while they've been waiting on a list to get those procedures?

[Dr. Louis Perrault]

We are currently trying to get an estimate. The exact number is hard to say.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

How about a ballpark?

[Dr. Louis Perrault]

We're talking probably dozens, ballpark.

What we definitely know, what we've analyzed, is that the number of people usually showing up, let's say for a heart attack, has been going down quite a bit. Some of the people, if they die at home, we never know whether....

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

That's another consequence of the whole situation.

[Dr. Louis Perrault]

On waiting lists, obviously, we monitor them, and one is too many, but around the province of Quebec, we can say that there are a couple in each of the centres.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Braithwaite, you talked about affordable housing and the 80% of market. The housing strategy, you said, is needed everywhere. Can you just elaborate on what you think a long-term care facility's housing strategy would look like, and how that would include having seniors stay in their homes longer? What are your thoughts on that?

[Michael Braithwaite]

A lot of that is around income supports, bringing the supports to the individuals and also matching the supports to what their needs are, especially for a senior.

For seniors, their supports might look a little different—personal support workers, income support, keeping them in their homes as long as they can and keeping them safe. I think that has a lot to do with prevention work as well. We can prevent people from falling into homelessness if we invest in the forefront.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Ms. Choo, could you reply to that as well?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Maguire.

Go ahead, Queenie, quickly please.

[Queenie Choo]

Thank you very much.

I really feel that everyone has a right to safety, respect and inclusion. This is very real for us, for every Canadian. I think this is so important to ensure for people of all ages, no matter where they come from, and also for people of the racialized community. It is very important for us to be supportive and to provide them with safety and respect. We want to create that inclusive community.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Maguire.

We will go now to Dr. Powlowski.

Dr. Powlowski, please go ahead for one minute.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

My question is for Dr. Perrault.

Of course a lot of people have had their surgeries cancelled during COVID, but I would think that this has really disproportionately affected cardiovascular surgery because the ICUs in Ontario and Quebec are full with COVID cases. If you get your appendix out, you don't go to the ICU afterwards, but a lot of your cases, I think, do end up going to the ICU.

Can you tell me how this has really disproportionately affected your ability to do important cardiovascular surgery?

[Dr. Louis Perrault]

In the province of Quebec, basically, in the first wave, the capacity for heart surgery went down to almost 20%. You are right—100% of our patients do have a stay in the ICU. For most of them, it is a short stay. I'd say that for around 60% or two-thirds it is only 24 hours, but they do need it acutely.

Initially, because of preventative measures to try to make room, a lot of the system was shut down too cautiously. Obviously, the strategy to decide where the patients should be going should be looked at, in the sense that maybe COVID patients should not be all across different hospitals but should be concentrated. There should be COVID-free hospitals with COVID-free cardiovascular centres so that there could be operations that keep going on.

It was definitely too precocious and too extensive a shutdown during the first wave and the second wave.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Dr. Powlowski.

We go now to Monsieur Thériault.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for one minute.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Dr. Perrault, we know that it is important to try to prevent the recurrence of heart disease.

Do you fear an increase of this recurrence with the pandemic or have you already observed an increase?

[Dr. Louis Perrault]

Earlier, you mentioned prevention.

Primary prevention, which is to prevent the disease from occurring, has been put on hold. Secondary prevention, which aims to reduce recurrence, has obviously been relegated to second or third place, given the current situation. This has long-term consequences.

So I would urge policymakers to adopt a perspective that includes non-COVID patients and to have a long-term vision.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

In response to Mr. Maguire, you talked about the non-COVID-19 patients who are on waiting lists. They have been diagnosed and are waiting for surgery. We are not talking about the patients who are waiting to be screened or diagnosed and who are currently invisible.

[Dr. Louis Perrault]

Exactly. The patients on the waiting lists are the tip of the iceberg. There are definitely delays in testing procedures. Cardiologists have noticed that patients don't show up. So we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg right now.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

Mr. Davies, please go ahead. You have one minute.