Health Committee on May 21st, 2021

[John Ossowski]

Certainly we would rely on whatever the scientific advice is from our colleagues at Health Canada and PHAC, so understanding the epidemiology and understanding the health care capacity in local areas because—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Barlow.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I'm sorry, but I'm out of time.

Does that criterion exist, yes or no?

[John Ossowski]

We have a certain set of criteria that we have started to work with, but it's an evolving scenario.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

So it doesn't right now.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Barlow.

We go now to Ms. O'Connell.

Please go ahead for five minutes.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think the Conservative leader might be surprised by some of this line of questioning, because on social media he seems to indicate that border measures need to be stronger, but then here at committee Conservative members argue to loosen those border measures that are in place to keep Canadians safe and stop the spread. So, there might be a disconnect within the Conservative Party right now. That's unfortunate.

Mr. Stewart, I want to talk about those questions a little bit—about crossing the border to get vaccinated.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going to lay out a little bit of a scenario. If a Canadian wants to cross the border to get a vaccine, doing so requires more contacts presumably than, let's say, if they were to book an appointment locally, go to that pharmacy or facility to get vaccinated and then go home, versus crossing the border whether by land or air, where many more contacts would be involved. Then there is the notion that there wouldn't be a quarantine requirement if they were even able to gain entry into the U.S. for vaccination, which the U.S. has indicated is not an essential medical service. Notwithstanding that, if they did cross that border, I don't understand how the argument to remove any quarantine measures makes any sense given the fact that even when I went for my vaccine or when my parents got their initial vaccine, they were told that vaccines are not immediately effective. They don't offer immediate protection. Dr. Tunis even mentioned studies that discuss the length of time for your body to build up antibodies against the virus.

The notion that the second you get this vaccine, you're protected and are not going to put anybody at risk and therefore don't require testing or quarantining.... Do I understand that correctly? Actually, you're at risk because you've now come into contact presumably with more people than if you went to be vaccinated locally, and secondly you're not immediately immune. Therefore, by not quarantining and not testing, you could actually unknowingly be putting even more community spread out there.

[Iain Stewart]

Mr. Chair and honourable member, you have it absolutely right, actually. That is the reason why they would come back and do testing and quarantine, because it usually takes about 14 days—Dr. Tam can speak more authoritatively to that than I can—for our body to mount its immune response after vaccination. They, in effect, are not yet benefiting from that vaccine by way of protection. So, yes, you're quite right.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you.

Just on the AstraZeneca piece, while we've been in this meeting I think Ontario announced its second-dose strategy, and in fact I've already been getting messages from friends who are excited that they've booked their parents for their second dose of AstraZeneca.

I guess this might be a question for Mr. Stewart or Mr. Matthews in terms of procurement. We don't quite know how many people yet will want to receive their second dose. Frankly, some are not eligible yet, just based on timing and the fact it's ultimately up to the provinces and territories to determine that schedule.

Are we actively monitoring the uptake of a second dose of AstraZeneca and are we working with provinces and territories to make sure that, if there are additional needs, whether it's AstraZeneca or, let's say, a Pfizer vaccine, those Canadians will still have access to a safe second dose? I guess the question is, are we confident and comfortable that this momentum with vaccines coming to Canada is going to continue and that we are still going to meet those targets?

[Iain Stewart]

First of all, I just want to note that I'm a one-dose AstraZeneca person thus far, and I'm looking forward to a second dose like many other people are.

In that regard, as I mentioned, we have 655,000 additional doses being distributed in real time that will cover all of the demand for people's timelines for second doses all the way through June. As Bill Matthews can speak to, we have other sources of supply lined up in the event there is a desire by the majority of people to continue with the second dose.

As Dr. Tunis was setting out, however, we're also going to have the option—it's quite likely, but not yet substantiated by way of the data—that people could get a second dose of messenger RNA. Therefore, I think everybody who is waiting for their second dose from a first dose AstraZeneca perspective is well looked after. There is supply, we have it now and we will have in fact further options in addition to what's required over the course of the coming weeks.

I don't know, Bill, if you want to add anything on the supply.

[Bill Matthews]

Thank you, Iain.

Mr. Chair, the only thing I would add is that the next shipment of AstraZeneca, should it be necessary, would likely be in the last week of June, and we'll play that by ear based on demand from provinces.

We do have enough Pfizer and Moderna on order in case people are interested in getting a second dose of that instead of AstraZeneca, should that be the health guidance, so I feel like we're covered either way.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. O'Connell.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Vinette.

Reopening a border like the one between Canada and the United States is not something you can improvise. I imagine you need to start thinking about a reopening plan for non-essential traffic now. We still have a long way to go. Only 34% of people have received a first dose of vaccine. The Prime Minister said he would lift public health measures once 75% of the population have received a first dose.

Is that number part of your criteria in the plan that you have or don't have?

Can you tell us what your forecast is in that regard?

How will you proceed?

[Denis Vinette]

I thank the hon. member for his question.

Actually, as soon as the U.S. border measures were put in place, we had already begun to lay the groundwork for the reopening. We didn't think we would still be in this situation today, but we're projecting the volume of people who are going to come to the border. With Transport Canada and the Public Health Agency of Canada, we're looking at what measures will be needed to streamline the processes in place right now, to reopen the border in a thoughtful and orderly fashion, while also talking to our U.S. counterparts to coordinate the measures in place at both our northern and southern borders. So, operations are continuing.

With respect to your question about the vaccination rate, that will certainly be considered, but that information and guidance will come to us from the Public Health Agency of Canada and the people who are studying the medical science on this.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

We can all agree that during a global pandemic, reopening a border like this involves very careful planning.

In your scenarios, do you think it would be done by territory or nationally? Would you wait until the situation is stable from coast to coast before reopening the border?

Are you looking at these scenarios and having that kind of discussion?

[Denis Vinette]

Yes, absolutely. We are in contact with our Group of Five partners, the United States, Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom, to learn from their experience and to guide our approach. We are currently developing various scenarios to guide our approach to border reopening, either on a territory-by-territory basis or a national basis, based on medical science. Our guidelines are set by the Public Health Agency of Canada.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Do you have the manpower you need for a safe reopening?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Chair, some members have had a little more time. That's a worthwhile question, I asked him if he had the manpower needed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Thériault, you have had four minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Chair, I saw you raise and lower your card several times when it was Ms. O'Connell's turn. Now that it's my turn, you're giving me two and a half minutes, while members in the Liberal Party have plenty of time to ask their questions.

We will talk about it afterwards, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Monsieur Thériault, you've had four minutes. Your time is up. We'll go now to Mr. Davies.

Mr. Davies, go ahead, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I look forward to my four minutes, then, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Stewart, what percentage of people arriving from international air flights ends up in quarantine hotels?

[Iain Stewart]

We have that statistic. If I have a minute, I can provide that. If not, we'll follow up with you in writing after the proceedings, sir.