Health Committee on June 18th, 2021

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Right.

I want to put to you what's happening in the United Kingdom. There, the delta variant has surpassed the alpha variant to become the dominant strain. As a result, this week, Boris Johnson delayed his plans to lift most remaining COVID-19 restrictions by a month.

One of the reasons, by the way, is that a study by Public Health England found that Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines had notably lower effectiveness after one dose for the delta variant, at only 33%, from 51% respectively. He is saying that the extra time will be used to speed up Britain's vaccination program, which has already delivered full vaccine schedules to 44.5% of the population.

Given that only 14% of Canadians have been fully vaccinated to date, do you believe that provincial reopening plans should be delayed to accelerate the delivery of second doses in response to the spread of the delta variant?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

I think the provinces have to manage based on their own epidemiology, which is quite different from one province to the other.

Having said that, with the number of vaccines coming in, I actually think that second dose coverage will accelerate pretty fast, so it's data, not dates. In any case, even with the initial ballparking of the dates from the different plans, even with the delta variant, I think if we can get the vaccination rates up you may still be able to meet those kinds of timelines.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Let's hope so.

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

Some provinces deliberately didn't put certain dates, and other ones did, but with the caveat that they may have to change them if the need arises. We hope they don't.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I want—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, committee.

That wraps up our third round. We have very few minutes left. Given that the House voted on supplementary estimates (A) last night, I think that our voting on them here becomes somewhat moot, so I suggest that we have a quick snapper round and give every party one minute. I will start with the Conservatives.

Who is up for the Conservatives at this point?

Go ahead, Mr. d'Entremont for one minute, please.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you.

I have a quick question around AstraZeneca. The provinces have basically stopped using it. There's a challenge right now, in that if you travel to the States, they won't accept that as being a vaccine at this point. Maybe NACI has looked more closely at what we're supposed to do with AstraZeneca doses.

Minister, have we ordered any more and are we going to be cancelling the contract with AstraZeneca?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

In terms of the future of the contract with AstraZeneca, we have always been clear that doses we don't use will be donated to the rest of the world through a variety of mechanisms, but I'll turn to Dr. Tam for the specifics on AstraZeneca and NACI.

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

I think NACI has made its recommendations.

Right now, the detail work that was done with the provinces and territories is in fact coming back to Brigadier-General Brodie with the actual numbers of doses that they require. Some individuals still want AstraZeneca as their second dose, so the provinces are making sure those doses are covered. It is a very careful sort of monitoring we need so that we do not order more than we need, but at the same time, we satisfy that need. I don't think we will see the numbers come to ground for a few days, probably, just to see what the initial shift in public requirements will turn out to be like after the update to the recommendations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. d'Entremont.

Mr. Kelloway, you have one minute, please.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Chair.

This is a question that could be answered by anyone. Could you tell us more about the strategies PHAC is using to monitor Canadian immunity to COVID-19? That's question number one.

Quite frankly, do you think Canadians should feel optimistic about the immunity levels and trends we're seeing across the country?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Perhaps I will turn to Dr. Tam, who is obviously an infectious disease expert and is widely connected to the research community.

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

There's been a very significant investment through the Canadian immunity task force. Through that task force and its funding mechanisms, a whole host of studies and surveys are being done across Canada in the general population. That includes blood donors, persons with HIV, seniors in long-term care, health care workers and kids. We will have some very good data on the level of antibodies and immunity in the population.

Prior to the vaccine, because we did manage to suppress a lot of transmission in Canada, the level of immunity from the natural infection was low. It would be less than 10% for the most part, and a few percentage points when we started the beginning of the second wave, for example.

However, with vaccines and with the uptake in vaccines, it means that a very significant proportion of the population will now benefit and have immunity. The funding, the studies and the surveys will continue over time to monitor the immunity afforded by the vaccine, or the immunity afforded by the virus.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.

I'll now turn the floor over to Mr. Lemire.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for one minute.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

During our meeting, we learned some significant news that greatly concerns all Canadians. The head coach of the Montreal Canadiens hockey club has caught COVID‑19.

I'm talking about this because the club confirmed that the head coach received two doses of the vaccine.

I want to ask Dr. Tam or someone else the question.

How is it possible to contract COVID‑19 and test positive for the disease when you have already been vaccinated twice? This has a major impact on the national interest of Canadians.

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

We're very fortunate in Canada to actually have very effective vaccines. However, vaccines are not 100% effective even with two doses.

To illustrate this, if a vaccine is 80% effective, you might still get a fifth of the population, even after vaccination, who may be susceptible to infection. What we do know, in general, is that these infections are going to be milder, so the prevention of serious outcomes is also very key.

You've brought up a very important point, which is that you can still get infected. Even though you have a mild illness, you could pass it on to someone else who might not have been well vaccinated. The bottom line still stays the same, whether it's the variants we have now, or the fact you may still see cases after vaccination. The bottom line is to get two doses of a vaccine, or to complete a full course of vaccines. That will still work.

Sports teams have to have protocols. At this time, these types of games are performed under the auspices of public health departments that have safety plans in place so that, should people become positive, they don't spread that virus to a lot of other people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

We now go to Mr. Davies, for one minute, please.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I think we can all agree that we're all pulling for the Canadiens to win the Stanley Cup this year, so let's get that on the record.

Dr. Tam, we heard some evidence this week that highlighted the federal government's failure to duly consider sex differences in immune response to infections and vaccinations in our vaccination study. A witness noted that:

Being female is also the greatest predictive risk factor for many autoimmune diseases. Women also bear the brunt of experiencing more serious adverse events related to vaccination, and we've also seen that with the COVID-19 vaccines.

By the way, we also know that women have twice as many antibodies as men.

Could you confirm if the Government of Canada is conducting sex-based dosing studies for these new gene delivery platform vaccines, and whether they're being performed for safety and efficacy?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

I'll start, but it may be Dr. Lucas who's in a better position to answer this.

All I know is that the clinical trials and the recruitment of participants have included both males and females in a good proportion, but the trials are done in tens of thousands and can't scope in every single population group. It's not just sex differences. There are other differences.

As for pregnant women, we need more studies there in particular. We're following pregnant women through registries, but it is a very important point. In fact, through preclinical trials all the way to clinical trials, you need to take a sex-based approach, including in animal studies even, and I think the regulators have some requirements on this front.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

That wraps up our questions. I'd like to go on the record by saying that the chair takes no official position on hockey.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Chair, if I may, I would move that the committee wish the best to the Canadiens in their upcoming endeavour.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I will second that, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Do we have unanimous consent?