Evidence of meeting #6 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clerk.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Jean-François Pagé

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number six of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Health.

The committee is meeting today to discuss a work plan for our study on Patented Medicine Prices Review Board guidelines, following the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, October 26.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. I would like to start the meeting by providing you with some information following the motion that was adopted in the House on Wednesday, September 23, 2020.

The committee is now sitting in a hybrid format, meaning that members can participate either in person or by video conference. All members, regardless of their method of participation, will be counted for the purpose of quorum. The committee's power to sit is, however, limited by the priority use of House resources, which is determined by the whips. All questions must be decided by a recorded vote, unless the committee disposes of them with unanimous consent or on division. Finally, the committee may deliberate in camera, providing that it takes into account the potential risks to confidentiality inherent to such deliberations with remote participants.

The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Be aware that the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

For those participating virtually, members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either “floor”, “English” or “French”.

Before speaking, click on the microphone icon to active your own mike. When you are done speaking, please put your mike on mute to minimize any interference.

I remind participants that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

Should members need to request the floor outside their designated time for questions, they should activate their mike and state that they have a point of order.

If a member wishes to intervene on a point of order that has been raised by another member, you should use the “raise hand” function. This will signal to the chair your interest to speak and create a speakers list. In order to do so, you should click on “Participants” at the bottom of the screen. When the list pops up, you will see next to your name that you can click “raise hand”.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly.

Unless there are exceptional circumstances, the use of headsets with a boom microphone is mandatory for everyone participating remotely.

Should any technical challenges arise, please advise the chair. Please note that we may then need to suspend for a few minutes, as we need to ensure all members are able to participate fully.

For those participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Keep in mind the directives from the Board of Internal Economy regarding masking and health protocols.

Should you wish to get my attention, signal me with a hand gesture, or at an appropriate time, call out my name.

Should you wish to raise a point of order, wait for an appropriate time and indicate to me clearly that you wish to raise a point of order.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person. To be fair to all committee members, the list of speakers will only be activated once the meeting has officially started and not on admission to the room.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

I have a point of order, Chair. What's the delay right now? We're half an hour into this meeting.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Yes, you're correct. The audio is not getting to the staff members. We're just checking....

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

The clerk needs to shut the audio off, please, of whoever is talking, and they can watch on ParlVu, because we've wasted half an hour this morning. We have business to attend to, please.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Yes, I understand.

11:30 a.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Jean-François Pagé

We're all good.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you very much.

Before I get to your points of order, I want to mention that we're meeting today for the PMPRB. I should point out that on Friday we have the minister and officials scheduled for two hours. That will be televised. I'm hopeful that we can get squared away on a PMPRB study today so that we could start next week.

The analysts have indicated that in order for us to do a study and do a report, if we can get our meetings done and get instructions to them by the December 11, they'll be able to do a report that we can consider once we come back after the break.

It would be extremely difficult to get a report tabled by December 11. It is possible, but it would require a great deal of effort on behalf of the analysts, and it would restrict what we could table in the report.

In any case, if we can get squared away on the witnesses or the work plan for the PMPRB study, I would propose that we would have the first meeting next Monday, and possibly a second meeting on Tuesday. If we could do two weeks on PMPRB, it would give us time to get squared away on our House study. Hopefully at some point today we can move on to that and get that organized as well.

Now, I believe Monsieur Thériault has raised his hand on a point of order.

Monsieur Thériault, please go ahead.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Mr. Chair, there have been some audio problems that have affected my ability to vote. At times, I do not hear the clerk make the call, because I listen to him through the interpretation and the sound level is too low when he asks me to vote.

In addition, there is a delay before I hear the interpretation. I think I am the only one who needs the interpretation when the time comes to vote. I checked in chapter 20 of the House of Commons Procedure and Practice and I feel that our committee is the only one that works as we are currently doing in terms of voting. It seems that there is an inherent delay that is preventing me from hearing properly and being ready when the call to vote is made. I am humbly making you aware of this problem with the interpretation.

In addition, it clearly asks that the names of members be read in alphabetical order and by political affiliation. But according to tradition, the majority opposition parties come first and then the minority parties. That's what we did before this session anyway. I would ask that we return to a voting order by majority party; it would solve my problem with the delay in the interpretation, and would put us in line with all the other standing committees of the House.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

What we can do right now when doing a vote is to make sure to wait a few seconds before calling the vote. That will resolve some of your problem.

In regard to the process in general, I think that you, the clerk and I should meet off-line to see if we can find a way forward on this. Would that be acceptable?

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Mr. Chair, we could vote on the motion right away.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

It's not a motion.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Based on the House of Commons Procedure and Practice, I am asking us to go back to the parliamentary tradition that involves calling for the vote by majority parties. The names of the members of the parliamentary groups are read in alphabetical order starting with the opposition. The minority parties then follow.

We could vote on it and it would be settled.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

It's not actually a motion. You're speaking on a point of order. You can't move a motion on a point of order.

This comes from page 1063 of—

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Mr. Chair, if I can't introduce a motion, I want that rule applied, starting today.

I appeal to the clerk for an interpretation. It's on page 1063 of the House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Mr. Clerk, perhaps you'd like to respond.

11:35 a.m.

The Clerk

The text is actually clear, but is not really up to me to decide. It would be up to the committee or to the Chair—

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

I can't hear a thing.

11:35 a.m.

The Clerk

I can certainly give you my interpretation of the text, but ultimately, it would be up to the committee or to the Chair to decide. I am not going to be deciding on the voting order.

You will understand that I will abide by the rule as decided by the committee.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

However, my argument is as follows. All the committees function in another way and proceed in alphabetical order within each parliamentary group. By tradition, we start with the opposition party and then the majority party and the minority parties.

If it works that way in all committees, and if it has worked that way for us previously, why are we doing something different today? Is it just that we are interpreting the rule poorly?

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Mike Kelloway Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Is it on the same point of order?

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Mike Kelloway Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Yes. I have been reading the green book. Is it not your interpretation as the chair on this one?

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

I guess that's a fair assessment.

My interpretation in reading the green book is that it is by alphabetical order and by party. I interpreted that to be by alphabetical order and by party as well.

I'm happy to take this issue under advisement. I'll have a talk with the clerk and Mr. Thériault to see if we can resolve it off-line.

Thank you, Mr. Thériault, for your point.

We will go now to Ms. Rempel Garner. Do you have a point of order?

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

No, Mr. Chair. I would like to move a motion.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

I'm dealing with points of order at this point.

Mr. Davies, do you have a point of order—