Evidence of meeting #8 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was price.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Mitchell Levine  Chairperson, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board
Douglas Clark  Executive Director, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Jean-François Pagé
Karin Phillips  Committee Researcher

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number eight of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Health. The committee is meeting today to study the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board’s guidelines.

I thank the witnesses for appearing today for the first hour, and we will do some planning for our COVID-19 and PMPRB studies in the second hour. The witnesses will come back for a second hour on Friday.

The witnesses we have here today are from the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board: Dr. Mitchell Levine, chairperson, and Mr. Douglas Clark, executive director.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. I will start the meeting by providing you with some information following the motion that was adopted in the House on Wednesday, September 23, 2020.

As the committee is now sitting in a hybrid format, meaning that members can participate either in person or by video conference, all members, regardless of their method of participation, will be counted for the purpose of quorum. The committee’s power to sit is, however, limited by the priority use of House resources, which is determined by the whips. All questions must be decided by a recorded vote, unless the committee disposes of them with unanimous consent or on division. Finally, the committee may deliberate in camera, providing that it takes into account the potential risk to confidentiality inherent to such deliberations with remote participants.

The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website, and so you are aware, the website will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I will outline a few rules to follow. For those participating virtually, members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either “Floor”, “English” or “French”.

Before speaking, click on the microphone icon to activate your own mike. When you are done speaking, please put your mike on mute to minimize any interference.

As a reminder, all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

Should members need to request the floor outside their designated time for questions, they should activate their mike and state that they have a point of order.

If a member wishes to intervene on a point of order that has been raised by another member, they should use the raised hand function. This will signal to the chair your interest to speak and create a speakers list. In order to do so, you should click on “Participants” at the bottom of the screen. When the list pops up, you will see next to your name that you can click “raise hand”.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. Unless there are exceptional circumstances, the use of headsets with a boom microphone is mandatory for everyone participating remotely.

Should any technical challenges arise, please advise the chair. Please note that in that case we might need to suspend for a few minutes as we need to ensure that all members are able to participate fully.

For those participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Keep in mind the directives from the Board of Internal Economy regarding masking and health protocols. Should you wish to get my attention, signal me with a hand gesture, or at an appropriate time, call out my name. Should you wish to raise a point of order, wait for the appropriate time and indicate to me clearly that you wish to raise a point of order.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

Thank you.

We will now go to our witnesses. I will invite the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board to make a statement for 10 minutes.

Please go ahead.

11 a.m.

Dr. Mitchell Levine Chairperson, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board

Thank you very much.

Good morning.

My name is Mitchell Levine. I'm the chairperson of the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board, or PMPRB. I am also a practising physician and assistant dean and professor in the Faculty of Health Sciences and a faculty member of the Centre for Health Economics & Policy Analysis at McMaster University.

With me today is Doug Clark, the PMPRB's executive director. Mr. Clark will be familiar to some of you from his testimony in 2019 during his Standing Committee on Health appearance regarding the study of access to treatments for rare diseases and disorders in Canada.

Before I turn things over to Mr. Clark to walk us through the changes that have been made to our pricing regime and their impact, I thought it would be helpful to do a quick refresher on the PMPRB to provide a little background on the circumstances that have led to our issuing new guidelines last month.

As you know, the PMPRB was created in 1987 as the consumer protection pillar of a major set of reforms to the Patent Act which were designed to encourage greater investment in pharmaceutical R and D in Canada through stronger patent protection for pharmaceuticals.

The PMPRB is a quasi-judicial tribunal with a regulatory mandate to ensure the patentees do not abuse their patent rights by charging consumers excessive prices during the statutory monopoly period. Its creation arose out of the concern that stronger patent protection for medicines might cause prices to rise unacceptably and become unaffordable to consumers. The PMPRB is a creature of the Patent Act, which is the responsibility of the Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development, but given the nature of the products that we regulate, the provisions in the act that relate to us are the responsibility of the Minister of Health. While the PMPRB is part of the health portfolio, our role as an administrative tribunal with a quasi-judicial function means that we operate at arm's length from the minister and from other members of the federal health portfolio.

The PMPRB's regulatory framework is administered day to day by staff, public servants who monitor and investigate patented medicines that appear to be excessively priced. Staff apply the tests and thresholds specified in the PMPRB guidelines to identify potential cases of excessive pricing. When a price seems excessive, an investigation is then opened by the staff, and the patent team may be asked to submit a voluntary compliance undertaking, or VCU, which may include a written commitment to lower the price of the patented medicine and to pay back any excess revenue. In the absence of an acceptable VCU, an investigation may proceed to a public hearing before a panel composed of board members, like myself, who are part-time Governor in Council appointees. During such a hearing, the board panel acts as a neutral arbiter between the patentee and the staff. If the panel determines that the patented medicine was sold at an excessive price, it may issue a legally binding order requiring the patentee to reduce its price to a reasonable level and to repay any excess revenue that resulted from selling the patented medicine at an excessive price.

Since the establishment of the PMPRB over three decades ago, our operating environment has undergone significant change. Most notably, the nature of the products we regulate has changed dramatically. In the late 1980s and through the 1990s and into the early 2000s, the top-selling products in Canada were conventional small-molecule drugs for common ailments like high blood pressure or elevated cholesterol that would cost between a few hundred dollars to $1,000 a year per patient. In the early 2000s, the pharmaceutical industry began to shift its R and D focus to complex biological drugs that are often used to treat less common conditions and can cost several hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.

We have witnessed the upshot of that shift over the past decade, with the average annual cost of the top-selling patented drugs increasing by approximately 1,000% and the proportion of high-cost drugs—that is, drugs costing more than $10,000 per year—rising from 5% to 40% of overall pharmaceutical spending, while less than 1% of the population are using these medicines. By any measure, Canadians are paying a great amount of money for this new wave of high-cost patented medicines.

Of particular concern is that Canada pays the fourth-highest prices among the 31 OECD countries, 17% above the median price of those countries. Canada is the second highest in the OECD in terms of how much it spends on patented medicines as a proportion of total health care costs and in per capita spending. Only the U.S. is higher in both cases. From 2014 to 2018, growth in spending on patented medicines in Canada has doubled that of GDP, and it is over three times the growth of inflation.

As expensive drugs for rare diseases account for a rapidly increasing share of total spending, payers are becoming very concerned about sustainability. Not only are these drugs incredibly costly relative to the top-selling products of a few decades ago, but their market characteristics also shift the balance of power decidedly in the favour of patent-holding monopolists when negotiating a reimbursement price with public or private insurers.

This point was made rather emphatically by the pan-Canadian Pharmaceutical Alliance, pCPA, in its submission to this committee last year on access to treatments for rare disease.

It stated:

The pCPA often negotiates under very challenging circumstances starting with an extremely high list price, severe untreated disease, no competing products, and high patient and care provider expectations to conclude negotiations quickly. As such, the pCPA remains very concerned that the prices achieved through negotiation remain largely unfair, excessive and not cost-effective and that pCPA needs collaborative federal support to manage.

As members of this committee well know, Canada is the only developed country with a public health care system that doesn't include price coverage for prescription drugs. The pCPA accounts for approximately 43% of total pharmaceutical expenses in Canada, with the remainder being taken up by private insurance and out-of-pocket payments. If the pCPA believes its power buying is woefully insufficient to secure a fair price from monopolist pharmaceutical companies for the types of drugs that are increasingly dominating the market, one can only imagine how the mixed bag of buyers who account for the remaining 57% of pharmaceutical expenditures in Canada can fare in their efforts to negotiate a price they can afford.

As a federal ceiling price regulator, the PMPRB exists to protect payers in precisely these circumstances, and thereby serves as a proxy for the monopsony power that Canada lacks because of the patchwork nature of pharmaceutical coverage in this country.

If one accepts the proposition that an unbridled free market is not in the public interest when it comes to patented medicines, then really the only question is, what rules should a regulator apply in seeking to protect consumers from excessive prices in today's pharmaceutical marketplace?

The PMPRB has been actively consulting stakeholders and the Canadian public on this all-consuming question for the better part of five years. This brings me to the last point I would like to make before Mr. Clark explains to you the rules that the government has ultimately landed upon, and their projected impact over the coming decade.

I understand that some stakeholders have taken issue with the transparency and authenticity of these consultations, describing them as a sham that largely took place behind closed doors. The truth is quite the opposite. Between Health Canada and the PMPRB, the government has produced more than a dozen policy documents over the past five years, and has twice travelled from coast to coast to consult with anyone who expressed even a passing interest in them.

In the past year alone, we have held multiple policy forums where attendees were encouraged to voice their views of concern and dialogue directly with government representatives. After the initial consultation process, the PMPRB published its first proposed draft of new guidelines in November 2019.

Since then, the PMPRB has attended over 60 meetings across Canada with more than 260 members of its stakeholder community. Every document that we have ever published or presented at any forum at any time throughout this process is available on our website. We have received more than 300 stakeholder submissions in response to the documents we've put out over that period.

During this period we published a revised set of draft guidelines in June 2020, which was followed by an additional consultation period. Then in October we published the final version of the revised guidelines. We have made substantive changes to our initial guidelines proposal as a result of that feedback. While these changes are too numerous to mention now, we would be happy to provide a comprehensive list to the committee if its members are interested in the details of those changes. More than 90% of the changes are favourable to industry.

It is a complex and contentious area for policy development by any government at any time, because it seeks to reconcile seemingly conflicting public policy objectives—namely, facilitating access to patented medicines at non-excessive prices while recognizing the legitimate interest of pharmaceutical patentees in maximizing the value of their intellectual property. Not surprisingly, the PMPRB’s stakeholder community holds divergent and even diametrically opposing views on these reforms, with the industry on one side, the payers on the other side and patient groups scattered across the divide. Although consensus is not a realistic goal for us, we have made every effort through the consultation process to foster a productive, fair and transparent dialogue with our stakeholders, to listen carefully to their concerns and to have them reflected in the final guidelines document to the greatest degree possible

We believe the final product of our efforts represents an important step towards greater fairness in pricing, not only by bringing Canadian prices more in line with international comparators but also by introducing new pricing tests based on value for money and the health system's affordability.

While I recognize that our guidelines have given rise to a great deal of angst on the part of industry, I would ask the committee to consider how that could ever be avoided when the desired outcome of the policy is to lower prices and to reduce total expenditures on pharmaceuticals. To put the matter another way, what inferences might one draw about these reforms if they did not elicit such a reaction from industry? Nevertheless, a non-excessive price should be a fair price, and a fair price means a price that will permit the sustainability of both the health care system and the pharmaceutical industry.

Thank you very much for your time and attention.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you, Doctor.

Does Mr. Clark have a presentation as well?

11:15 a.m.

Chairperson, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board

Dr. Mitchell Levine

Yes, he does.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

You are at 12 minutes or so. Is it okay with the committee if we give Mr. Clark time to present?

11:15 a.m.

Douglas Clark Executive Director, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board

I'm in your hands.

It will take some time to go through this presentation. I had originally envisaged presenting it to you when we had two hours at our disposal. Now that it has been reduced to an hour, as I know committee members have an awful lot of questions, it might make more sense to just dive into them. I can refer you to slides in the presentation to the extent that they facilitate your understanding of my answer to your questions. It's really up to the committee.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

I understand that you're coming back on Friday as well. We have another hour scheduled.

11:15 a.m.

Executive Director, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Okay.

It's up to you. The committee has indicated that they're interested in hearing what you have to say.

11:15 a.m.

Executive Director, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board

Douglas Clark

Okay, sure.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you.

Go ahead.

11:15 a.m.

Executive Director, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board

Douglas Clark

I'll just refer you to the PowerPoint presentation that was sent to committee over the weekend. I'm going to zip right through this. I know that the committee has passed a motion to review and study our guidelines, but it's important to understand and to situate these guidelines in context.

They're actually non-binding and they sit atop—I'm on slide 2 of the presentation—a pyramid, if you will, of legal instruments that begins at the base with the Patent Act, which is obviously the responsibility of the Ministers of Industry and Health to the extent that our provisions are concerned and, ultimately, Parliament. It's in the act that the PMPRB is created and the excessive pricing factors are provided for, so I'll talk a bit more about those excessive pricing factors in a minute.

Then, above the Patent Act, we have the regulations, and they are the responsibility of the Minister of Health. They were recently amended. I'll be talking about that as well. It's in the regulations where patentees are directed to provide certain types of information and data to the PMPRB so that staff can administer the act and regulations on a day-to-day basis.

One of the factors in the act that the board is required to look to when trying to determine whether a price is excessive or not is the price of that same drug in other countries. The regulations also prescribe the list of countries that the PMPRB is to look to in making that comparison. Those are seven countries. I'll come back to that composition in a moment, because it has been amended. We call those the PMPRB7.

Then, at the very top, as I mentioned at the outset, are the guidelines. They don't have force of law, unlike the regulations and the legislation, but that's where the rubber hits the road. The act doesn't have a definition for what an excessive price is. It really doesn't offer a lot of specificity, nor do the regulations, so for a lot of the core administrative concepts, life is breathed into them in the guidelines, and that's where patentees turn to when they're trying to figure out how to comply on a day-to-day basis with the act and regulations.

As Dr. Levine mentioned—I'm on slide 3—we've been at this for quite some time. We published a strategic plan back in 2015 and identified some of the things in our environment, which Dr. Levine alluded to and that we feel have changed the nature of the game considerably. That was really when we put ourselves on a reform track and said that we needed to modernize and strengthen the regime if we were going to have the right tools to regulate the types of ceiling prices or types of products that were increasingly dominating the marketplace.

Shortly after we released our plan, we issued a discussion paper on guidelines modernization. It's important to understand that the guidelines are within the exclusive purview or authority of the board, so we wanted to get the ball rolling by engaging our stakeholders in a discussion on a document that we ourselves could amend independently and autonomously.

However, the ideas that were set out in that document were quickly picked up by the Minister of Health. Budget 2017, as some of you may know, earmarked additional funds for the PMPRB, CADTH and Health Canada to accelerate the market entry of patented drugs and to make them more affordable in Canada.

The types of changes we were talking about, and the guidelines, eventually got anchored into a more load-bearing document—the regulations—and the minister issued a white paper on regulatory reform. Ultimately, those proposed changes were published in the Canada Gazette in December 2017 and finally adopted in the Canada Gazette, part II, in August 2019.

Pretty much since that time we've been consulting on changes to our guidelines, for the better part of the past year. As Dr. Levine mentioned, we issued an initial draft for public consultation in November 2019, and then, based on the feedback we received, we revised that draft and issued a second one in June, and then made some additional changes to the version that is now final and was issued just last month.

I'm on slide 4 now. The changes to the guidelines are necessary to give effect to the changes, the amendments and the regulations.

What are those amendments? Basically, there are three types of amendments that we're talking about. First off, as I mentioned on the countries that we compare ourselves to currently, that list of countries, what we call the PMPRB-7, is being changed. The two most expensive countries are being removed from the list and countries with health systems and GDP per capita that are more in line with Canada are being added in. These countries also have prices that are more in line with the OECD median, if you will. The U.S. and Switzerland are out, and Australia, Belgium, Japan, Netherlands, Norway and Spain are in. That's the first change. The new list of countries we're calling the PMPRB11; there are 11 countries in it.

The second change is to add additional factors. I mentioned that section 85 of the Patent Act sets out the factors that the PMPRB is to consider when trying to make a determination as to whether a patented product is excessively priced in Canada. Those include the price of that same product in other countries, the price of other products in the same therapeutic class in Canada and in other countries and then the consumer price index.

However, section 85 also contemplates further factors being prescribed by regulation. For the first time in the PMPRB's history, the minister saw fit to introduce new factors by regulation through these amendments, these being primarily pharmacoeconomic value and market size. I suspect you'll have a number of questions on these new factors. I think I'll leave it to your questions to unpack them. They are complex and esoteric concepts, but I've become well versed in explaining them to people in layperson terms. I would be happy to do so in a moment.

As a result of these new factors, ceiling prices will be considerably lower in Canada. You've probably heard that concern expressed by industry and patient groups. In order for pharmaceutical patentees to be able to comply with those new lower ceilings that would result from the application of these new factors, it's important that the PMPRB have access to the true price of the product in the market.

Over the past two decades or so, prices in the pharmaceutical market have really gone underground, not just in Canada but also globally. Industry is increasingly negotiating confidential discounts and rebates with large institutional payers. Canada is no exception. No country knows what another country is truly paying for its patented pharmaceutical products. The irony in Canada is that the PMPRB is doubly handicapped in the sense that we don't know what other countries are paying and we also don't even know the real prices in Canada, because we don't have access to that true net price that takes into account the confidential rebate.

The third change in the regulations was to add a provision that requires patentees to provide us with those prices. However, as some of you may know, the regulations are being challenged before both the Quebec Superior Court and the Federal Court by the industry, two separate challenges. One of those challenges resulted in a decision from the Federal Court trial division earlier this year. It upheld the first two types of changes—the new countries, the new factors—but it did find that this third requirement that patentees provide us with this information was ultra vires of the enabling provisions of the act and therefore is of no force or effect. That decision is currently under appeal before the Federal Court of Appeal, but that has had consequences for how we are going to apply the new regime coming out of the gate in January of next year, 2021, when it comes into force.

It's important to understand that since inception, the PMPRB has taken the exact same approach to regulating all medicines that come under its jurisdiction. We look at them through the same lens. We apply the same tests. We only review the price substantively. We give a scientific and price review at introduction. We set the price, and that's it in terms of a substantive review of the appropriate price ceiling.

Going forward, however, in addition to changing our guidelines to implement these amended regulations, we're also taking a somewhat different approach, what we're calling a risk-based approach, to apply in our regulatory mandate. When new medicines come under our jurisdiction, we're going to apply screening criteria and divide them up into either category I medicines—medicines that we feel are at higher risk of excessive pricing—or category II medicines, which are medicines that we feel are at lower risk. You can see the screening criteria on slide 6.

With regard to the drug in question, its annual treatment cost is above 1.5 times GDP per capita, so it's about $90,000 annually. That will land it in category I. If its expected revenue in any of the first three years on the market is above $50 million annually, that will also land it in category I, in which case it will be subject to greater scrutiny under our new regulatory regime. I'll explain what I mean by that in a moment.

We expect that about 25% of new medicines will fall into category I and that the remainder will fall into category II. Although this represents a minority of the new medicines coming under our jurisdiction over the next decade, those medicines will account for the majority of sales of new medicines over the coming decade. The risk-based approach really scrutinizes a minority of drugs that will eventually account for the majority of sales.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Sir, can I get you to wrap up after this slide?

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Then we'll have time for one round of questions.

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board

Douglas Clark

Okay.

I'm going to go straight to the impact; I think that's what people are really interested in. There's a lot of conflicting information out there about what the impact of these changes will be, ultimately, on prices, revenues and savings in the Canadian system.

There are three types of medicines, if you want to unpack the impact. First are all the existing drugs under our jurisdiction today—that is, everything that's patented and on the market today. As a result of these changes, their list prices, on average, will go down by about 5%, and that will result in about $4.6 billion in savings or less pharmaceutical spending over the next decade. That's for all existing medicines today. They will account for the lion's share of sales over the coming decade and result in about $4.6 billion less in pharmaceutical expenditures.

Then we have category I drugs. Their list prices will go down by about 8%. The corresponding savings to the system will be in the order of about $1.1 billion over the next decade.

Finally, we have category II medicines. Their list prices are expected to go down about 13%, and the corresponding savings to the system will be about $500 million.

Slide 11 puts this in context. It gives you a fictional example of a drug that currently has a price of $1,000 and how this would be impacted, either as an existing grandfathered drug or a category I or category II drug going forward. It gives you some context as to what to expect on a go-forward basis.

It's important to understand that for existing drugs, the ceiling price that we're going to apply is the highest international price of these new 11 countries. It's going to take quite some time before Canadian prices align with median and OECD prices or with median prices of new countries that we're comparing ourselves to. You can see on slide 12 that we're the second highest. It won't be until all these existing drugs have exhausted themselves and have been displaced by new medicines that have lower ceiling prices that we will see a reasonable alignment of Canadian prices with the OECD median.

I mentioned the global impact. If you add up all those numbers, it's about $6.2 billion over 10 years. That sounds like a lot, but when you consider, to put it in perspective, that we currently spend about $18 billion a year on patented drugs and that by 2030 we'll spend about $22 billion a year, you see it's not an insignificant sum, but neither is it an earth-shattering sum either. It's about 3.9% of total spending over the next 10 years.

With that, I'm happy to answer any questions that the committee members may have.

Thank you for your patience.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you very much.

I hope we will be able to ask you more questions on Friday. We will only have time for one round of questions today.

We will start with Mr. Kmiec. You have six minutes, please. Go ahead, sir.

November 23rd, 2020 / 11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are for Mr. Clark.

Mr. Clark, I actually looked at all of your slides this morning; I read them over back and forth. I noticed that none of the slides talk about an analysis with regard to rare disease patients and patient access. Is there any reason for that?

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board

Douglas Clark

We didn't try to parse it that finely.

I know that there is a lot of concern out there in the patient community about the impact that these changes will have on drugs for rare diseases.

One of the things that I didn't touch on in my presentation, because I didn't have time, is that one of the changes we made to the guidelines over the course of our consultations was to basically insulate these types of medications from the impact of the lower price ceilings that will result from the application of the new factors. Any product that's going to earn $12 million or less in revenue in Canada won't be impacted in any way, shape or form by the new factors; it will get the median international price—

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Mr. Clark, I'm sorry. I'm going to interrupt you.

How did you reach that $12-million cap?

There are a lot of drugs out there. I'm going to give you an example of cystic fibrosis. I know a lot of members are getting emails and phone calls, and I have a lot of constituents with cystic fibrosis.

Orkambi was refused in Canada by CADTH. I'm wondering if you have made any analysis on a drug like Trikafta or any of the other drugs for cystic fibrosis. Did they exceed $12 million for revenue in Canada? Patient access should be an important part here.

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board

Douglas Clark

Some of them have.

Again, another aspect of the guidelines that I wasn't able to get into is the impact of that Federal Court decision that I mentioned. Going forward, until we have clarity from the Federal Court of Appeal and it reverses the decision at trial, the only price ceiling that these medications will be subject to is the median international price. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect pharmaceutical companies—some of the most profitable industry sectors in the global economy—to be able to bring drugs to Canada at a price that's more aligned with the international median. Canada is not alone—

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Mr. Clark, sorry, can I interrupt you?

I only have one round, so I have to make sure that it's totally worth it and I get the information out of you.

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board

Douglas Clark

No problem. Absolutely.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

This year we've seen, I think, an almost 40% drop in applications. Part of it, I'm sure, is also the pandemic. I was looking at your 2018 annual report, and I have it right here. It shows there was a drop in sales, a drop in shares of patented medications. I don't see a 2019 report. Do you have the 2019 numbers, then? What do they look like?

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Patented Medicine Prices Review Board

Douglas Clark

Yes.

The 2019 report will come out soon. It usually comes out in the fall in the last few years. I don't know the exact timing off the top of my head. I don't have the number at my fingertips either. I can certainly undertake to get back to you on that.

In terms of the applications going down and the number of clinical trials going down, a lot of people have made that assertion, from industry predominantly. We take issue with those numbers. Our own analysis of the data doesn't support that. Clinical trials are going down in Canada. They're going down in all developed countries and actually at a less dramatic rate in Canada than in most other developed countries, as clinical trials move more and more towards developing emerging markets.