Health Committee on March 21st, 2024

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Saying that somebody is a traitor—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I'm simply asking you the question.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—is a very serious accusation. I would say that it's normally a matter that would be determined by the courts.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Yes, but you don't even know what the definition is, Minister. You have no idea. You're clueless.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

That's your characterization.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

You have no idea what the definition is. You're reckless, you're permissive and you're loose with the facts.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Sir, you felt that way before you met me. You're so blinded by your partisanship, you would have thought that about me before you even spoke to me.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

No, you've actually proven today that you don't know the facts of your file.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Excuse me. Retreat to your corners for a second.

There's a point of order from Mr. Naqvi.

Go ahead, Mr. Naqvi.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I just really fail to see the line of questioning from the member opposite. I find even more disappointing the constant name-calling that he has undertaken. I've let it go a few times. It does not advance thoughtful, rational questioning. He has legitimate questions that he wants to ask, but he can ask them in a manner that is to the point and factual without calling names.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Naqvi.

I'm inclined to agree, Dr. Ellis. You're absolutely entitled to ask aggressive questions, but there's no place for insults.

Please go ahead.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Chair.

I would say that I have about 30 seconds left. I think pointing out to Canadians that this minister doesn't know his file and that he's reckless, permissive and lax with security is absolutely accurate and adequate.

What you're telling Canadians is that no one will be held accountable for an egregious breach of security sending talent, information and abilities to a foreign hostile power. Is that true, sir?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

The Canadian citizens in question were fired. The Canadian citizens in question are under investigation, as is appropriate. They are eminent scientists who lied to PHAC and misrepresented their actions—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

These are eminent scientists—wow.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—and there were consequences. These individuals were fired and are under investigation. The fact that you are not achieving your partisan ends is not my concern.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

If I may say so, Mr. Chair, I would suggest that the minister needs to hold his questions as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Dr. Ellis.

The final round of questions will come from Mrs. Brière for five minutes.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the minister and all the officials for being with us today.

Dr. Lucas, thank you for your service, leadership and vision.

Minister, we know our response to mental health is stronger when provided as part of integrated care. Can you expand on how we are integrating mental health care as part of the greater health care system?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you so much, and thank you for your work, Madame Brière, in this area. You've been such a leader in the space of mental health and working towards that very outcome.

In the first instance, there are the working together agreements that have, at their core, an integration of action on mental health and better integration into the overall health system to make sure that folks get the help and support they need. That means making sure the agreements are culturally appropriate and that we're attacking systemic racism, that people are entering environments that are sensitive to who they are, and that people are comfortable and safe in navigating the incredible challenges they face with mental health issues. Many of these are very intransigent and, of course, have trauma at their core.

There's a direct proportionality between the trauma and incredible pain people have experienced and the outcome of poor mental health. It is not surprising, then, that our most vulnerable and marginalized people, who've been subject to racism and the effects of colonialism, are the ones who disproportionately suffer. We have to take a whole-of-government approach, not just inside of our health system, which I know you advocate for. It's also about making sure we have housing. It's about making sure we have food security for folks and that people have access to the full range of 360° supports they need when they're in that kind of state.

It's so important to do that, because when you don't deal appropriately with somebody who is in a state of mental health crisis, that situation will deteriorate and manifest itself in all kinds of other terrible health outcomes. Of course a person can't be productive if they don't have strong mental health.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you so much.

The environment is one of the factors that affects people's mental health. This week, we received a report that said Canada's air has been contaminated. Last summer's forest fires are one cause of that.

What are you doing to protect people's health in the face of that?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

There's no bigger challenge than that. It's our environment. It's our future. Taking action on climate change is absolutely essential.

However, we also have to respond to environmental crises in the moment. We need to take action to improve these situations and make sure people get the services they need then and there.

That's why our agency responds to environmental crises like the one caused by forest fires, and that's what we'll continue to do.

That's also why it's absolutely essential that we continue to take action for the planet with a suite of environmental measures that include the price on pollution.

Our health is at stake. The connection to the environment is very important. The cost of neglecting this is absolutely extraordinary and utterly unacceptable.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you. I have no further questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Madame Brière.

Thank you very much, Minister.

Dr. Lucas, there were all kinds of tributes to you today. Let me simply wish you a long, happy and healthy retirement. Thank you again for your service to the country but also for the numerous times you've come before this committee. You've been extremely patient and professional with us. That has always been appreciated.

That concludes the first panel. We're going to suspend now to allow for our next panel of witnesses. Thanks again.

Thank you, Minister.

We're suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I call the meeting back to order.

I'd like to welcome our second panel of witnesses. With us is the Honourable Ya'ara Saks, Minister of Mental Health and Addictions.

Welcome to the officials who are joining us for the second hour of this meeting. From the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, we have Samuel Weiss, scientific director, institute of neurosciences, mental health and addiction. From the Department of Health, we have Jennifer Saxe, associate assistant deputy minister, controlled substances and cannabis branch. From the Public Health Agency of Canada, we have Nancy Hamzawi, executive vice-president, and Michael Collins, vice-president, health promotion and chronic disease prevention branch.

Welcome back to the committee, Minister.

You have five minutes for your opening statement. Please go ahead.