Health Committee on March 21st, 2024

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Excuse me, Minister, please.

The Wuhan—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I appreciate that you have a line of questioning that you want to...but if I'm not able to answer—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Chair, is this the type of answer that we're going to get from the minister, as we did before, with this continuous interrupting from him—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I'm not able to answer his question in the time that's been provided.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

—knowing full well that it's my time to ask questions and not his?

Is that what we're going to have here today, Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Go ahead with your question, Dr. Ellis.

Please let him finish his question, Minister.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Chair.

Was it the day after the Wuhan Institute of Virology asked for samples that this agency, run by you—you clearly admit that—then allowed a scientist go to that actual institute of virology?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I disagree with your characterization. If given the opportunity—and clearly, I'm not—I would be able to provide context and be able to answer your question.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

It's a fairly simple question.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I disagree with the way you're characterizing the information. I don't think it's a fair either reflection of the circumstances or—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Okay.

How about this then, Minister? Think about this. Red flags were raised. The Wuhan Institute of Virology asked for samples of perhaps two of the most dangerous pathogens in the world: Ebola and Henipah virus. Then a scientist from a lab under your direction went to China.

Is that true or not?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

What is true—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Are the facts there or not?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

What is true is that, at that moment in time, we were collaborating with China on, yes, viruses like Ebola. It was part of an international effort to try to ensure human safety.

The two Canadians that you're referring to—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Minister, do you think it's okay for a scientist who has red flags raised in their activities to then travel to a place that has requested dangerous pathogens from our lab? Do you think that's okay?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I don't think it's okay that the two Canadians citizens—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

You're justifying it.

Is it okay or not?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I am saying that the two Canadians that you're referring to, who are eminent scientists, who are well published in North America—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Minister, they're eminent scientists? Where are they now?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I don't understand—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Where are they now?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—how this works.

Am I afforded the opportunity to speak, or is this—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Where are those two scientists now, Minister? Where are they?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

So—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Where are they?