Evidence of meeting #107 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was you're.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Heather Jeffrey  President, Public Health Agency of Canada
Catherine MacLeod  Acting President, Canadian Institutes of Health Research
Eric Costen  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Health
Jennifer Saxe  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Controlled Substances and Cannabis Branch, Department of Health

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Welcome to meeting no. 107 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Health.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. In accordance with our routine motion, I'm informing the committee that all remote participants have completed the required connection tests in advance of the meeting.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee is studying the subject matter of supplementary estimates (C), 2023-24: vote 1c under Canadian Food Inspection Agency, vote 5c under Canadian Institutes of Health Research, votes 1c and 10c under Department of Health, and vote 10c under Public Health Agency of Canada.

I'd like to welcome our first panel of witnesses.

Joining us for the first hour is the Honourable Mark Holland, Minister of Health.

As well, we welcome the officials accompanying him today. From the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, we have Diane Allan, associate vice-president, policy and programs. From the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, we have Catherine MacLeod, acting president; and Jimmy Fecteau, chief financial officer. From the Department of Health, we have Dr. Stephen Lucas, deputy minister; Eric Costen, associate deputy minister; Michelle Boudreau, associate assistant deputy minister, strategic policy branch; and Karen Stewart, director general, resource management and advisory services directorate. From the Public Health Agency of Canada, we have Heather Jeffrey, president; and Martin Krumins, vice-president and chief financial officer.

There's such a vast number of officials here in support of the minister that not all are seated at the table, but if any are required to respond to one of the questions posed by members of Parliament, they'll simply approach the table.

With that by way of introduction, we welcome Minister Holland and invite him to make his opening remarks for up to five minutes.

Welcome, Minister. You have the floor.

11 a.m.

Ajax Ontario

Liberal

Mark Holland LiberalMinister of Health

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. It's a pleasure to be back before the committee, in this instance to address supplementary estimates (C).

I would be remiss if I didn't start by thanking Dr. Stephen Lucas. Many of you have heard that Dr. Lucas is retiring. Dr. Lucas's incredible leadership is a massive part of why we had the incredible pandemic response that we had. He leads an extraordinary team of officials. It has been my extraordinary pleasure over these last eight months to work alongside him. He will be sorely missed, but on behalf of all Canadians, I want to thank him profoundly for his contributions to our country and to health.

11 a.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

March 21st, 2024 / 11 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

Colleagues, I come at a time when we're seeing fantastic things happening in our health care system. Just this week, I started Monday with Everett Hindley in Saskatchewan, announcing our shared commitment to work together on health care with a health agreement that covered aging with dignity and our working together plan, tackling the challenges and crises we have in primary care by setting aside partisan differences, focusing on what we have in common and, frankly, getting things done for Canadians.

Ten bilateral agreements have already been announced across the country. There are actually many more because some of them are under aging with dignity and some of them are through working together, but in totality there will be 26 agreements.

Next week I'm going to have the opportunity—you've heard about the agreement in principle with Quebec—to finalize that. That's part of our $200-billion commitment to the Canadian health care system, to make sure that, while we already have one of the best health care systems—and we just saw something in fact a couple of weeks ago saying that we're the number two health care system in the world—we have the opportunity to be head and shoulders the best health care system in the world.

It's not enough to tackle the crisis of the now, however, whether it's aging with dignity or dealing with workforce issues. We're also looking at preventative care and going upstream. Over 1.5 million seniors have signed on for the Canadian dental care plan, so we're superexcited to see such an incredible rate of participation. I can say that, as I go across the country and meet with hygenists, dentists and denturists, it's phenomenal to see so many signing up, getting ready to serve people who, in many instances, have never seen an oral health professional. Of course, how can we have the best health care system in the world if 25% of our population doesn't have access to oral health? We continue to move forward on dental care.

I'm also exceptionally pleased—and I see Don Davies on the screen—to have worked very closely with Don. There were a lot of difficult negotiations.

I want to thank all parliamentary colleagues, Sonia particularly on the diabetes side.

We were able to announce the first steps towards a national pharmacare plan, and we're starting with universal contraception and diabetes drugs. I just want to talk for a minute about how significant that is.

On universal contraception, this means that no woman anywhere in the country will have to worry about whether or not she has access to the reproductive medicine she needs to have autonomy over her own body. It means that wherever somebody is, they are in control of their body, their sexuality and their reproductive future.

That's not only important as a matter of direct application. It's essential to broadcast as a message about sexual health in this country. Sexual health is health. We need to be able to have conversations about sexual health in the same way we have conversations about any other aspect of health. I hope it starts a conversation around sexual shame and what we need to do to ensure that people are able to freely be themselves in this country.

On diabetes medication, it's going to mean...and I could give you an example of an Ottawa clinic, going in and speaking to a nurse in a diabetes clinic who says they watch patients reuse syringes. They watch patients who can't afford their medicine, which means they wind up in a situation where they have an amputation. That shouldn't be happening in this country.

I am so deeply proud that we were able to work in a cross-partisan way to do something that will so significantly impact the lives of so many. It is in that cross-partisan spirit that I hope we meet here today to have important deliberations on how we can serve Canadians and their health.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you, Minister.

We're now going to proceed with rounds of questions starting with the Conservatives.

Dr. Ellis, go ahead for six minutes, please.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Thank you very much, Chair.

Dr. Lucas, thank you for your service to this country. We all appreciate it. We wish you well in your retirement as well—fabulous.

Minister, who is the minister in charge and responsible—I'll use that term; it's perhaps better—for the Public Health Agency of Canada?

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

That would be me.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

That would be you. Excellent.

When was the first red flag raised about the two scientists at the national microbiology lab in Winnipeg?

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

The first time it would have come to my attention would have been as a parliamentarian going back to the debates we had in the House. At the time, I would have been the whip. Of course, government House leaders—

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Just provide the date, Minister. I don't need a story.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

I wouldn't recall the exact date. It would have been around that period of time when it was 2018 or 2019. I was a parliamentarian. I was the whip at the time.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Is what you're telling this committee that, before that time, there were no red flags raised about two scientists at the national microbiology lab who turned out most likely to be foreign agents?

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

No, I was saying that, at the time it came to my attention, I was the whip. If you'll indulge me, I can turn to Heather Jeffrey who can tell it from a PHAC perspective.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Just the date, please, Ms. Jeffrey.

11:10 a.m.

Heather Jeffrey President, Public Health Agency of Canada

The first concerns were raised in September or October of 2018.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Was it the discovery by the DSO of a patent registered in China that raised that red flag?

What was the cause of that, Minister?

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

I'll turn it over to—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

You really have no clue.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

No, no. First of all—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Thank you very much.

Ms. Jeffrey, what's the answer to that? Was it the discovery of the patent?

11:10 a.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Heather Jeffrey

Yes, Mr. Chair, that was the first evidence.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Very good.

When we look at that, it's interesting though—isn't it—that China requested samples to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Then, the day after that, is it not true that Dr. Qiu travelled to China?

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

I think that at the time the—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

I didn't ask you about what time it was, I asked you if it's true that the—

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

It depends on whether you want an answer.