What's the number for 2022?
Evidence of meeting #121 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was treatment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #121 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was treatment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
Minister of Mental Health and Addiction, Government of Alberta
As I said, I don't want to misquote. The 2023 numbers, as we saw, are a 14% lower number than we saw in British Columbia, as a comparison. The first two months of 2024—
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
No, that's not what I want to know.
I can see here that, in 2022, Ontario had 2,531 cases, British Columbia had 2,410 cases and Quebec had 540. I want a number, not a percentage. What are your numbers?
12:35 p.m.
Minister of Mental Health and Addiction, Government of Alberta
I'm very happy to have that provided to you. I don't have all the numbers in front of me for all the data.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
12:35 p.m.
Minister of Mental Health and Addiction, Government of Alberta
I'm happy to oblige.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
Moving on, I heard you often mention ideology. What do you mean by that? I could take it to mean that your approach is ideological.
12:35 p.m.
Minister of Mental Health and Addiction, Government of Alberta
I would say that of course all of us come to the public space with a desire that is going to be informed by our beliefs, but fundamentally I'm not going to throw out evidence-based data and evidence-based policy-making because of a pre-existing ideological commitment.
I see that happening in other policies like safe supply. The data shows it's devastating. Common sense shows it's not working. Nonetheless, it has continued, in spite of all.... There seems to be an allergy to the evidence that shows that. I'm about anything that brings health—
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
That's not what I'm talking about. You said that harm reduction leads to a life of misery and that treatment is the only hope.
If I say to you that harm reduction is the start of treatment, would you tell me that my approach is ideological?
12:40 p.m.
Minister of Mental Health and Addiction, Government of Alberta
I would agree that it is the start of treatment, but in the end, with enough time, if you only facilitate the addiction, you're not—
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
Do you give your people on the ground, those on the front line, the tools they need to be effective during that start of treatment phase? Are you instead going to tell people on the streets that they have to choose between their misery and death and completing your supervised treatment program?
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Stephen Ellis
Sorry, Mr. Thériault, but your time is up.
Minister, a very brief response, if you would, please.
12:40 p.m.
Minister of Mental Health and Addiction, Government of Alberta
I will meet Albertans wherever they are to get them the care they need, but certain programs like safe supply I oppose. However, that does not include a wide variety, as I mentioned, such as NTS or consumption sites. You talk about the digital overdose prevention app. I could go on and on. Virtual opioid dependency program—many people consider that harm reduction. I'm not ideological about that.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Stephen Ellis
Thank you, Mr. Thériault.
Mr. Johns, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Minister Williams, the numbers are clear: 1,732 people died of the toxic, poisoned drug supply in 2022, and 2,050 people died in 2023 in Alberta. We had the deputy commissioner of the RCMP testify at committee, and he was unequivocally clear that police aren't seeing diversion of safer supply across B.C.'s borders. Police also disagreed about the widespread diversion, beyond a few high-profile cases. In fact, the coroners in both British Columbia and Alberta cited that only 3% of people who died in B.C. had any traces of hydromorphone and died from fentanyl, and 2% in Alberta.
You talked about not enough data or research when it comes to safer supply, but the peer-reviewed research is showing that it's actually working. You haven't provided any evidence of what your claims are. These are outrageous claims. Can you show me or produce evidence to this committee that diverted safer supply from British Columbia is flooding Alberta?
12:40 p.m.
Minister of Mental Health and Addiction, Government of Alberta
Yes. I'm happy to provide two answers directly to that and address your other questions, Mr. Johns.
Number one, we have the RCMP—
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I'm asking if you can table that to this committee. Can you produce—
12:40 p.m.
Minister of Mental Health and Addiction, Government of Alberta
I will table the RCMP statement that they made in Prince George, that they believe it's being diverted out of province.
12:40 p.m.
Minister of Mental Health and Addiction, Government of Alberta
I'm sorry. You asked for—
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Stephen Ellis
Mr. Johns, please, you know our notion here: that when you ask a question we allow the witnesses to answer that question. I would suggest to you that the witness has about 45 seconds to answer your original question.
Minister, if you would, please.