Thank you, Mr. Johns.
Evidence of meeting #121 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was treatment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #121 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was treatment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Minister of Mental Health and Addiction, Government of Alberta
You asked for evidence. I'll happily table that.
Second, I have asked for a unique chemically identifying tracer in the production of safe supply from your government, which seems to refuse for technical reasons—pushing the cart down the road without doing it. That would provide everyone with the evidence. I don't know why there's a concern over providing this. Is there an allergy to evidence in policy-making in this government? It concerns me deeply.
When it comes to evidence around what safe supply is and isn't, the peer study you're referring to is what Canadian academics refer to as “junk science” because of the way it was produced.
12:40 p.m.
Minister of Mental Health and Addiction, Government of Alberta
It is because of the outcomes they looked at—two weeks down the road. They also didn't aggregate opioid agonist therapy out of that. It's very clear. You don't need a Ph.D. to understand that giving drugs to drug addicts to address an addiction crisis will make it worse.
12:40 p.m.
Minister of Mental Health and Addiction, Government of Alberta
We see improvement.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Stephen Ellis
Minister, thank you.
Mr. Doherty, you have the floor for five minutes.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm going to move away from the hot topic of safe supply.
I'd like to ask our witnesses this: As a country, we seem weak and unable to stop these harmful drugs from flowing across our borders, whether it's fentanyl, carfentanyl or the precursors to these. I'm wondering if the witnesses have an idea or a suggestion.
Mr. Felicella, you've been on the street. You said that you've dealt with that. I'm interested to hear your side on how we, as a nation, can stop these harmful drugs from flowing across our borders into our country.
12:45 p.m.
Harm Reduction and Recovery Expert, As an Individual
That's the million-dollar question.
Honestly, it's been an absolute debacle, because you just can't stop drugs from getting into the country, unfortunately. The thing you can consistently look at is trying to reduce it.
I've seen more drugs in prison than I've seen on the street, in some circumstances. The reality is, unfortunately, that you're not going to stop the flow of drugs into the country, or the precursors. You may get the low-level street dealers, but you don't get the big guns. You never get them. They're not even in British Columbia. They're in countries like Fiji and Vietnam, running an operation globally. This global war on drugs has just provided an avenue for drugs to go everywhere. These people are effective and efficient, and they understand what needs to be done. They understand there's also no shortage of people in the world who use those substances.
Unfortunately—
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I'm sorry to interrupt.
In your view, should Canada ban those precursor drugs?
12:45 p.m.
Harm Reduction and Recovery Expert, As an Individual
I don't know what drugs these are. They are probably already banned, but they still get in. Drugs are banned in the country of Canada. You're not allowed to have fentanyl, or produce it or sell it, but it still comes into the country.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thank you for that.
Dr. Goulão, our provincial director of health Dr. Bonnie Henry testified at our committee last week that she's in favour of legalizing deadly drugs like cocaine, heroin, meth and fentanyl.
Do you support that?
12:45 p.m.
Institute on Addictive Behaviours and Dependencies
I quote Mr. Felicella: It's a million-dollar question.
I'm not sure. I believe everybody wants to lower the impact of the use of substances in our societies. I'm not sure which is the best way to do it or deal with them. In a regulated market, it's probably easier to track them and have good-quality products circulating.
Will people tend to use more? Will deaths grow? I'm not sure about the consequences of these types of substances. Even with cannabis, it's not completely clear what the impact is of legalization or regulation of the market. I'm not sure.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
In 2023, overdose rates in Portugal were reported to have hit a 12-year high. What was the nature of that? Why was that?
12:45 p.m.
Institute on Addictive Behaviours and Dependencies
In 2023, we had 74 overdose deaths. Most of them were related to opiates, mainly to heroin, and also crack cocaine. Those were the main causes of it.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Stephen Ellis
Thank you very much, Mr. Doherty.
Dr. Powlowski, you have the floor for five minutes.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Dr. Goulão, I am still curious as to how the Portuguese system works. Unfortunately, we weren't able to go there and see for ourselves. I think you either said or implied that the Portuguese system was non-coercive, although I would suggest that it is a little bit coercive in that, yes, it's not a crime, but drug use is not permitted.
Am I right that you kind of equated the possession of drugs to being like a traffic offence, like not wearing a seat belt? Is that kind of the equivalent? As well, am I right that everybody who is caught has to go before the commission for drug addiction? When does that happen? Does it happen right away?
12:50 p.m.
Institute on Addictive Behaviours and Dependencies
People who are intercepted by the police authorities using drugs or possessing small amounts of drugs are addressed to those commissions. I would not say that all the people who use drugs are presented at any time in their lives to those commissions, but in any case, on average, 10,000 people a year are presented to those commissions.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
How soon after you're picked up by the police do you go before the commission?
12:50 p.m.
Institute on Addictive Behaviours and Dependencies
In three days people must present themselves before the commission. There is a maximum delay of three days.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Mrs. Goodridge asked you early on what would happen if somebody was using crack on the beach. You said that the police would pick them up and would refer them to the commission. What happens if they go right back to the beach again?
12:50 p.m.
Institute on Addictive Behaviours and Dependencies
The police pick up the person again and somehow enforce their presence before the commission.
12:50 p.m.
Institute on Addictive Behaviours and Dependencies
If you disobey and you do not go, you are incurring a disobedience felony, which is a crime. We are not charging them for the use of a substance but for disobeying a police intervention.
