Health Committee on Oct. 29th, 2024

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

It's ridiculous.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

The minister has the floor.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I can tell you that.... Look, I was in opposition. I've been in the position they are in, where you ask questions. I am saying that not only is the conversation not relevant, but I don't think that it's at all respectful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Doherty has a point of order.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Chair, it is commonplace within this committee, as well as other committees that I've sat on, that the length of a question is applied to the length of the answer. Where the frustration comes, with this minister, is that he tends to go on beyond the length of the time that it took to ask the question.

As you know, members are given a specific allotment of time. It is frustrating when you have ministers appear, not just this minister, but other ministers.... I know that this minister is well versed in the art of what we call ragging the puck, and so are other ministers, taking up the time of each member. When my colleague and others ask simple questions about a number, that's all they look to receive. If we wanted the statistics for each province, I would offer that it would then bode the answer that the minister was going for.

I can see that my colleague has done research and has a number of questions that he would like to ask, so I would ask, through you to the minister, that if and when he can be concise, to please be concise.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes, Dr. Ellis.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I know this is painful for you. I understand that, but since when does a witness get to direct a committee? All I suggest to you—and I know you won't like this—is to do your job.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Sidhu, do you have a point of order? Do you want to intervene on this one?

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, we invited the minister. Let's be respectful. When asked a question, the minister has the right to give the answer. That's my point.

Thank you.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You have three minutes and 37 seconds.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Minister, after all of the bombast, we'll go back to the questioning here.

When we begin to look at Canadians, we see that, because of your mismanagement of the health file, they have to look after themselves by virtue of turning to things such as natural health products. Your ineptitude has led many Canadians we've heard from to use natural health products.

That being said, how many Canadian seniors are hospitalized every year because of pharmaceutical products?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I believe that I am here for natural health products. I don't blame the member for not wanting to ask questions about this terrible bill. I wouldn't want to talk about this terrible bill either. I understand his desire to talk about anything but this awful bill.

I could tell him—and I'll bring it back to the bill—that there were 772 severe adverse reactions from natural health products. This member is supporting a bill that would not allow our ability to recall products that have those kinds of—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Once again, Minister, I'm going to interrupt you, as is the convention of this committee—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

The types of hospitalizations—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Minister, excuse me, please.

Go ahead, Dr. Ellis.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thanks, Chair.

Clearly, what we're seeing here is an aversion to answering questions. Very simply, this will connect. I know it's difficult for you.

How many Canadian seniors are hospitalized every year due to pharmaceutical products?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I understand that it's—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Just give us the number, Minister.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Do I get the same amount of time as he had to ask the question? Is that the rule?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I understand that it's difficult for you to understand that I'm here on natural health products. That is the purpose of this study, and I understand why you wouldn't ask questions on it—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much, Minister. I will interrupt you once again.

Just give us the number. How many?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I'm here to talk about natural health products. It is the purpose of this study. I want to talk about it.

I'm not going to let you off the hook to not talk about your own bill.