Health Committee on Oct. 29th, 2024

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

It's estimated at 6.5 million.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Actually, if you read the CIHI report, it says 5.4 million adults. Is that correct?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

That's correct.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Is that number going up or going down?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

In every province and in every territory—with, I believe, one exception—the access to a doctor is improving. There have been more doctors added, more nurses added. That's in the baseline CIHI report, so that's actually before our investment of $200 billion.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Again, Minister, I don't think that's what I asked you.

Is the number of Canadians who do not have access to a primary care physician going up or going down?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Access is going up. In the baseline report, we see that evert province and every territory accessed more doctors and more nurses in almost every jurisdiction. That's a baseline report. That is before the interventions of our signed agreements with every province and every territory, $200 billion being applied—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

But we know very clearly—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—and I could talk about all the different ways that we're improving that circumstance, but Conservative cuts certainly aren't going to help.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Excuse me, Minister. I didn't ask you any of that.

Again, if you don't want to be respectful, why do you even bother coming here?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I'm sorry. I don't find your questions or your demeanor respectful, so I don't know why I should reciprocate something that is not extended.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

If all you want to do is continue to ask and answer your own questions, then why do you bother coming?

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

There is a point of order from Mr. Naqvi.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm patiently listening to Mr. Ellis's questioning, and I'm failing to see any relevance to the topic at hand, which is this particular bill dealing with natural health products, so unless he has a long-winded way of getting to the presentation that we heard and the bill that we are reviewing, I'd like him to focus on the bill that we're talking about.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I think it's valid. I'm not sure that there's a connection between access to family doctors and this private member's bill. This is not an examination of estimates, where it's much more wide open.

I do hope and expect that Dr. Ellis will get to the point, and I think it is a valid point of order.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Did you have another one, Mrs. Goodridge, or is it on this point?

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I have a point of order on this point of order.

The minister just very clearly said that he doesn't plan on respecting my colleague because he has decided that is not something he's going to do. I don't think that is befitting a formal committee meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I think it's reciprocal, quite frankly, and it's too bad. The witness merits respect, as does the person posing the question. Why don't we treat everyone with respect around here, please? I wouldn't pin it on one side or the other, based on what I've heard so far.

Did you have something you wanted to say, Minister?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Mr. Chair, my reflection was simply that if I'm attacked and treated in the way that I am, I'm going to respond. Absolutely, I am here to answer questions, but—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I have a point of order.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—I would suggest, Mr. Chair, that perhaps we could start with things germane to this bill.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Excuse me, Chair, on a point of order, who controls this committee? Is it you, or is it the minister? This is ridiculous.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Please, Dr. Ellis. The minister has the floor.