Health Committee on Nov. 26th, 2024

[Chief Thai Truong]

They're outlying communities. We know from information that remote communities in northern Ontario are seeing prices that are much higher than two-dollar or five-dollar tablets.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

At your press conference, you said that this has been occurring for a while. Approximately in what month and year did you guys first start seeing the diversion of these government-funded opioids?

[Chief Thai Truong]

I can tell you that it became very concerning and prevalent last year. We looked at our data for the last five years, and the data I shared with you with respect to the seizures from 2023, when thousands of hydromorphone pills were seized in our city, showed that 50% of those seizures were specifically eight-milligram Dilaudid pills.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

We also had Dr. Sharon Koivu, another London doctor, who said she saw vulnerable women patients who were being pressured to secure safe supply, and then they were basically being pimped out for these drugs. Is this something the London Police Service has also seen?

[Chief Thai Truong]

Yes, that's the information we have as well.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Does it concern you that vulnerable people are being made more vulnerable by the use of government-funded drugs?

[Chief Thai Truong]

Our concern is the victimization of all individuals in the community. Vulnerable and marginalized people are extremely at risk. This is a complex issue. This is one area where we see the exploitation that members in our community are unfortunately experiencing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Chief Truong.

Thank you, Mrs. Goodridge.

Next is Ms. Kayabaga, please, for six minutes.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd also like to thank our witnesses for being here today.

I extend my deepest condolences to the Hedican family for the loss of their son and their nephew.

Earlier, you talked about the politicization of the issue. Do you think we can find a path forward when the noise is very political right now? What advice would you give to get past the politicization so that we can continue to honour the lives of those who have died?

[Jennifer Hedican, As an Individual]

I'm sorry. It was hard to hear you.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I apologize.

I was asking about your thoughts on the politicization that you talked about earlier and what your advice would be to get above the noise so that we can actually do the work that continues to save lives.

[Jennifer Hedican]

I believe we all have to come at it from a human perspective. You can make different choices if you want, as a government. We've seen it multiple times.

There's accurate reporting, telling the whole story, understanding that it's not only people who are unhoused who use substances, being accurate in reporting all types of substance users and acknowledging that our first nations individuals are seven times more likely to die. If we report all of the information, I believe people will have a better understanding of it.

If I can talk to what Laila Goodridge and Chief Truong talked about, I wondered—

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I apologize, but please be really quick.

[Jennifer Hedican]

I wondered if they asked themselves why these people have to sell safe supply. Is it because the other supplies are so toxic?

I believe we have to look at it holistically and we have to stop 10-year-olds from dying from poisoned sources.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

That's interesting. Thank you.

[John Hedican]

Can I make just one quick comment?

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Quickly, yes.

[John Hedican]

When we talk about politicizing it, I just had to listen to Mrs. Goodridge use the word “radical”. I don't know why we need the word “radical” when this harm reduction is brought by health professionals. It's similar to when a federal leader uses the term “drug dens” when he's talking about safe consumption sites.

It just covers people fighting a disease in shame and stigma. Shame on that language because it doesn't need to be used and it does no good.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you so much.

Let's go back to what some of our other witnesses have said, which is that we cannot ignore evidence-based....

I'm going to the chief now.

Chief, thank you so much for being here.

On October 16, you made a comment in The London Free Press. You said, “We know we can’t arrest our way out of this...[but] there are times when it is appropriate to make arrests when individuals are openly using dangerous drugs in the community.”

Can you comment on who the appropriate person would be to make these arrests for public drug use? What kind of law enforcement services do you think are needed to adequately respond to this overdose crisis in our community, especially in London and given the context and collaborations that have happened across different practices?

[Chief Thai Truong]

Thank you for the question.

Chair, through you, with respect to the question about the open drug use, police officers need to have the ability to intervene. When you talk about public drug use and consumption in open spaces, there has to be perspective and a balance between the actual circumstance of that individual using in public and the impact to the community.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Do you think that the police services right now are equipped to do that?

[Chief Thai Truong]

I think we need collaboration and partnership. We need support from health and social agencies.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Is that the collaboration of community services?

[Chief Thai Truong]

That's correct.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Are you currently working with community services to address the opioid crisis in the city of London?