Health Committee on Nov. 26th, 2024

[John Hedican]

Ryan was our family's IT guy. Ryan hated his disease. He felt shame, stigma and remorse. Our political system—the prohibition of drugs—put that on Ryan.

When he tried to fight his disease, he fought hard through recovery. His second time was for eight months. You don't stay in recovery for eight months if it's not something you want in your life. At the end of the day, Ryan relapsed shortly after eight months, doing a job that he loved. He had dreams. To have that taken away from him, when he should be alive today....

As I've said, if he were an alcoholic, he'd be here today, because he would have had a chance to go to a safe legal source to get what he wanted and get back on that horse again. He would have beat it, but we never gave him another chance, because the prohibition of drugs sends those who relapse and fight a disease right to organized crime: They have nowhere else to go. We don't acknowledge that, and it's wrong on so many levels. When I talk about “politicizing”, that's what happens. We don't acknowledge the truths and realities.

One hundred and fifty youths in B.C. have died, from 2018 to 2023, and the vast majority of these kids are not addicted. They make a mistake when they try the gateway drug—alcohol—and they die, and we don't talk about what has killed them.

If you two could quit talking when I'm talking up here.... It's rude. I'm talking about the death of my son and the 150 youths who have died in our province and who would be alive today if they would have had a source that came from a legalized clean source.

Those 150 parents would be disgusted.

I'm sorry. I lost track of the question.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I'm going to follow up with a bit more so you can speak to it.

Over the course of the study, we've heard from many of the parents who have lost a child, the parents you talked about, or who have a child struggling with addiction. They've shared differing views on whether we need to scale up or scale back measures like safe supply. Have your views on how to address the crisis evolved since you lost Ryan? What do you think are the most critical actions that the federal government needs to take?

[Jennifer Hedican]

When you bring a child home from the hospital, you can't look at them with the thought that they're going to battle something you won't be able to help them through. I heard the honourable member talking about her children having strep throat. I understand that, because my son had been sick, as well. When they move to the use of substances that they battle.... Our other children have used substances, as well, but they don't battle them.

Gord asked a question. I'll go quickly.

My view has completely changed. John, as an alcoholic, has been sober for 38 years. We talked openly about what substance use is like. I was certain our children were not going to follow that same hard path. I really fought against Ryan using substances, even though I was the mother who would pick him up if he'd had too much to drink, then not admonish him, because my siblings and cousins had all done this in their adolescent phase, as well. I now know that substance use, when it becomes chronic, is not a choice. The number of people we met in recovery facilities Ryan had been to.... People talked about it being their eighth time there. That's the heartache people went through. It's not the fault of the person, even though it feels like it when we put that judgment on them.

I really wish we didn't use the word “overdose”, because it's not an overdose. When Ryan was 16 and went to a New Year's Eve party, he ended up with alcohol poisoning. It's called “alcohol poisoning”, but everything else is called an “overdose”. We had the coroner change Ryan's death certificate to say that he died from toxicity due to a substance. You can't call it an overdose, because people are not ingesting what they think they are ingesting. The amount of toxicity in the drugs is so high and inconsistent that users don't know what they're putting in their bodies. I hear the word “fentanyl”. Fentanyl is not the only drug being put in that is killing our loved ones.

The drug toxicity is also impacting people who are unhoused, because they are constantly in a state of withdrawal from drug sickness. If the coffee you drank today had not had the right level of caffeine, which was replaced by other substances that made you ill, your body would still crave that caffeine. You would probably need more instances of it throughout the day, which is what is happening with drug toxicity now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you. We're over time. I expect you'll have other opportunities to expand on that.

Next, we're going to Mr. Moore for five minutes.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for their testimony today.

Chief Truong, I have some questions for you about organized crime.

It's something affecting all Canadians, in both urban centres and rural areas across this country, and in every province. It was astonishing to look at a release from the London Police Service guns and gangs section recently, laying 62 charges. Items seized were a Smith & Wesson nine-millimetre handgun, a Glock handgun, a loaded Glock handgun, another Glock handgun, oxycodone tablets, cocaine and crystal meth. We see how, in Canada, gun deaths have increased by 116% since 2015, and gang-related homicides have increased by 78%. We are facing a crisis related to organized crime.

In your testimony, you mentioned the diversion of so-called safe supply by organized crime. I'm wondering if you could expand a bit on the willingness of someone to divert the safe supply they've received. I use the expression “so-called safe supply” because of the testimony we've heard at this committee. The way this supply is being abused is resulting in more crime and chaos. As we all know, there have been over 40,000 overdose deaths since 2015.

Could you speak in practical terms about how this diversion, in your experience, plays out in your own community?

[Chief Thai Truong]

I'll give you one example. Not every participant in the safe supply program is involved in diversion. There are instances where individuals who are participants in the safe supply program are unhoused, have very little money or currency and are addicted to fentanyl.

As users, these particular individuals, in these circumstances, have no money to purchase fentanyl, but they're part of the safe supply program. If they are engaged in the program, and receive a supply of Dilaudid eights, that now acts as currency that they never had previously. Because they're prescribed a quantity of hydromorphone, they now are able to obtain fentanyl. They will trade or sell that medication to obtain fentanyl. That is one example of what is occurring.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you for that explanation.

In 2022, Bill C-5 passed. It eliminated mandatory jail time. I'm not speaking here about those who were addicted to any substance, but those involved in organized crime, those convicted of producing, importing or exporting schedule one drugs like fentanyl, meth, heroin and cocaine. The result of the elimination of mandatory jail time for those involved in this organized crime was that it made available the possibility of serving your sentence within the comfort of your own home on conditional or house arrest, rather than a period of incarceration.

Coupled with that, in 2019, Bill C-75 came into effect. It has been known as a catch-and-release system whereby judges have become increasingly likely.... It's all but a rubber stamp for someone charged with serious drug offences, including gang and gun offences, to be back out on the street to revictimize their fellow Canadians.

Can you speak a bit to the impact of the passage of that legislation and your organization's ability to disrupt the illicit drug trade?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Please provide a very brief response.

[Chief Thai Truong]

As a chief of police, laws are very important. Specific laws that are created to ensure that this community is safe and laws pertaining to individuals involved in organized crime and the exploitation of individuals in our society are very important to me as a chief and to many police leaders.

There were a number of perspectives and objectives with Bill C-75, many of which were not fully mentioned. The application of the law is not for me to dictate. That is for the courts to dictate and apply.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Chief.

Thank you, Mr. Moore.

Mrs. Brière, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all our witnesses for joining us today.

Mr. and Mrs. Hedican, please accept my condolences on the death of your son, Ryan.

When you hear the Conservatives say that they will stop the safe supply and shut down the safe consumption sites, what are your reactions? Do you think it's important to have harm reduction services available for those struggling with addiction?

[John Hedican]

I'll be very quick.

I'm disgusted when I hear that. It's a gut punch. Deaths will only increase if that occurs, and policy that increases deaths is one hundred per cent wrong for so many reasons. It is disgusting. To have recovery, which is what they call for, as the be-all and end-all is a fantasy. They're in a fantasy world. There's a 92% chance that people will relapse. That's the be-all and end-all. When that happens, as I said, they have to go to organized crime.

Until we address the reality of toxic drugs being supplied by organized crime, you can have this meeting for years to come, the police chief can keep putting people in jail—there will always be people to put in jail—we'll just keep spending billions of tax dollars, and our kids will keep dying.

[Jennifer Hedican]

I wanted to thank you for your question.

I'm hearing people say that nobody is happy about organized crime supplying toxic drugs. You really have two choices. One is that you leave it in the hands of organized crime. They have been supplying the drugs forever. I could ask all of you and/or your parents the same thing: Did you ever use any illicit drugs as you were growing up? Did you ever try any of the things that were illicit? Yes? They were supplied by organized crime.

You really have two choices, Mr. Moore. You can leave it in the hands of organized criminals or you can regulate it and make sure that it's a safe supply so that people don't die from it. Then you will be able to talk about all the other things. Until then, you are wasting money and you are wasting lives.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you so much for your answer.

My next question is for you, Ms. Brière‑Charest. If we had more time, I'd try to figure out if we're related, but I'm going to ask you another question instead.

During your opening remarks, you mentioned the importance of evaluating and analyzing the social determinants and aggravating factors. You also recommended clarifying the social determinants of health and the social and health inequalities specific to the use of psychoactive substances and the overdose crisis, taking into account provincial, regional and local distinctions.

Can you elaborate on that for us?

[Kim Brière-Charest]

Yes, the social determinants of health are closely linked to several aspects of the overdose crisis. For example, research is starting to show links to difficult socio-economic conditions. Housing is one thing that's hugely problematic across Canada right now, as you know. There are also links to poverty and mental and physical illness. These factors combine to exacerbate substance use problems.

Many factors are involved. In Quebec, the Comité Maison de chambres de Québec, a last bastion against homelessness for some, can no longer meet the need. Unfortunately, various social coexistence issues may have more to do with these social determinants than with drug use per se. That's on top of the shortage of spaces in places that house these people.

It's important to address all these aspects of the problem to get a comprehensive understanding of the crisis. Witnesses have said as much today. People's basic needs must be met, and there has to be access to treatment and follow-up, as well as ongoing research on that.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

You also mentioned that the social safety net has definitely helped mitigate the overdose crisis in Quebec. How would you characterize access to those community services?

[Kim Brière-Charest]

This is about access to essential services. Supervised consumption services in Canada reversed over 60,000 overdoses between January 2017 and August 2024. That's a big deal. Those lives probably would have been lost otherwise.

The government must ensure that the health care system and organizations can create spaces to respond immediately in an emergency. That's in addition to prevention, which needs to be enhanced across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Brière and Ms. Brière‑Charest.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Brière‑Charest, some people think that the harm reduction approach, specifically safe supply and supervised consumption sites, normalizes addiction to hard drugs and keeps people addicted.

What are your thoughts on that?

[Kim Brière-Charest]

The fact is, the people who deliver harm reduction services are there to support people who use drugs. They can refer them to treatment or detox centres. Users who want to cut back or stop using altogether build trust with the front-line workers they interact with on a daily basis.

This is a suite of services designed to ensure the health and safety of these people and to keep them alive, given the number of deaths we are currently seeing.

Our basic assumption is that people have been using drugs for millennia. There's also the human face to this, which Mr. and Ms. Hedican talked about. My condolences to them. Unfortunately, programs based on abstinence, whether they target drug use or sexual health, have shortcomings and are not effective. They can even have the opposite of the desired effect.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Do you think statements like that contribute to stigmatization?

[Kim Brière-Charest]

Absolutely. In fact, stigmatization has also been identified as one of the social determinants of health associated with the overdose crisis.

Stigmatization is also present in various health care establishments and institutions, and it leads to discrimination in access to care and treatment.

That's why we have to tackle judgment and prejudice not only in the general population, but also among health care professionals.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

Next, we have Mr. Johns, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I had a chance to visit London and go out with COAST, your community outreach and support team. I want to commend you on the work they're doing, the mental health collaboration work that you're doing on the ground.

You talked about evidence-based policies, and you support a medical health-based approach. The chief coroner and the chief medical health officers all say that people aren't dying from a safer supply of drugs. They're dying from fentanyl, and as Mr. Hedican talked about, it's a concoction of fentanyl, meth, cocaine and MDMA. That's what they're finding. Eighty per cent of the people who die show up with fentanyl in their bloodstream.

Do you agree that's what's killing people?

[Chief Thai Truong]

I would agree that it's the toxic drug supply that is killing people.