Health Committee on June 8th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I have no objections, but I leave it up to each individual questioner if they want me to turn it back on.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Okay.

Do I have some time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes. You have three minutes.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

My second question, Minister, is with respect to the World Health Assembly, which you recently attended in Geneva, the 75th World Health Assembly. You delivered a statement on the theme of health for peace and peace for health, in which you stated that there cannot be health without peace. You condemned the destruction of Ukrainian health facilities and attacks on their health care workers.

Can you tell us a bit more about this trip and what's being done to support Ukraine from a health perspective amid its current health emergency?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you again. I hope you can hear me.

Yes, we were at the World Health Assembly, the 75th annual conference. Yes, we did speak about exactly that: no health no peace, and no peace no health. In that context we worked very hard with member organizations to support a motion that was then posted and tabled by the Ukrainian government and the Ukrainian health minister—whom I was fortunate to meet—obviously to denounce the invasion by Russia, but equally importantly to speak about the terrible health and health care circumstances in which Ukrainians are finding themselves.

On behalf of all Canadians I offered the Ukrainian health minister our unwavering support and full commitment to working with them to look after the health and health care of their citizens.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I appreciate the answers and I will cede my remaining time to the chair. I hope you get some rest.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you very much, Mr. van Koeverden.

Mr. Thériault, welcome back to the committee. You have the floor for six minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Greetings to the minister, and I hope he gets well soon. We'll be delighted to hear him answer questions in the House once he's recovered.

Mr. Minister, the Bloc Québécois supports diversity in all areas, but I want to talk about something else. We're going to put some meat on the bone and talk about beef labelling.

We recently learned that Health Canada wants to change the labelling on ground meat to include a statement about trans fats. We certainly understand the fight against artificial trans fat, given that it has such adverse health effects. However, don't you think that adding a statement on a label to indicate something that is naturally occurring in the product is going too far, and is harmful to our producers? That's what they think, anyway. Especially since the very same piece of meat—only not ground—would include no mention of trans fats and wouldn't be a problem.

But scientific findings on the effects of natural trans fats are completely different compared to findings on the effects of artificial trans fats.

Couldn't we just use common sense in labelling beef, just as we do for butter?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's an excellent question, Mr. Thériault.

These recommendations and decisions are based on a very detailed scientific analysis by Health Canada, the regulatory agency, and on a great deal of collaborative work with partners and experts outside the Government of Canada.

I would like to invite the deputy minister, Mr. Lucas, to clarify the process. If you'd like to hear specific details on the ground beef issue, he could also provide those.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

The process isn't really what interests me. What I am interested in, Mr. Minister, is your opinion about why we have this double standard in place. There's no labelling on dairy products, or butter products, but there is labelling on beef products. For the same cut of meat, they could decide to add a statement about trans fats.

I'd like to hear your opinion. As the minister responsible for this, don't you think it's a bit overzealous?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

As we've already stated, it's a process that's based on scientific analysis, on an extensive network of experts and partners, and on the main purpose, which is, of course, to have a light hand, while also helping people stay healthy.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I can see that you're not open to the idea of changing or reviewing this.

I'd like to turn to a question I asked you the last time you appeared before the committee. Last March, you told the committee that there would be announcements in the near future—those were your words—in the context of the Cannabis Act review, regarding the production and use of cannabis for medical purposes. It's an open secret that Health Canada provides licences to organized crime groups, who then combine the licences, and that this creates a whole host of problems for municipalities and their residents.

Does Health Canada plan to stop acting as a front for the cannabis black market? When are you going to review the act and fix this problem once and for all? We already talked about this several weeks ago.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

As I understand it, a review of the act is currently under way. Again, the deputy minister will be able to give you specific details about that.

Having said that, there's a significant and absolutely critical exercise that I'm focusing on with my team of officials. We need to ensure, as you say, that the current measures, which may be revised, are applied fully and effectively.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

People are currently circumventing the law. Doctors from other provinces can even issue licences in another province, over the Internet, without ever doing the proper background checks. I raised this the last time you were here, and you said you were going to announce some changes.

Do you have any changes to announce today?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I asked to get regular updates on this issue. The deputy minister will be able to provide you with more details about that.

Just a few days ago, I saw significant progress in this area in terms of results, but also in terms of actions. I think the deputy minister could give you some examples.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Are you going to give me any examples of results? I'd be happy to hear the details of any results in this area.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I saw the documentation not too long ago, and I think that we'll be able to give you a fairly detailed overview very soon of everything that's been done, of the important results that have been achieved, and also what remains to be done. As you said, there will always be more work to do on this issue.

For example, Health Canada has conducted a significant number of audits and validations. In addition, there have been a significant number of licences revoked or paused in the issuance of these licences by Health Canada because of the considerations you mentioned.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

Next is Mr. Davies, please, for six minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Minister, I join my colleagues in wishing you a speedy and full recovery. Thank you for being here.

Minister, COVID-19 has exacerbated existing health care challenges. It's put immense pressure on overburdened facilities, increased backlogs and pushed health care workers to the brink of exhaustion.

I think it's fair to say there is widespread agreement that Canada's health care system is under serious strain, if not in crisis. There is also unanimity among provinces and territories that we need long-term, stable increases to the Canada health transfer, and urgently.

What is your position on Canada health transfer increases, and when will you meet with the provinces and territories to work out an agreement?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That is a great question. Let me answer it in two ways.

First, about what we have been doing and what we are doing in terms of concrete actions, you will remember budget 2022, which announced important investments on health human resources. For instance, there is $115 million over five years, I believe, to facilitate the approval of foreign credentials, which would lead to 11,000 new health care workers per year being able to use their talents to serve Canadians and patients.

The second thing is the $26 million over four years for loan forgiveness to rural nurses and doctors, to support them when they work in those more remote communities.

As well, I speak to my colleagues almost every week. We had a health ministers meeting just this week—I think it was on Monday. We speak to each other very often, and for exactly that purpose, as you said, Mr. Davies, that we need to mend the damage that was created by COVID-19, and indeed move forward—

[Davies]

Thank you. I'm sorry, but I—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Davies, please.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Minister, I know you're aware that Canada's rising food prices are hurting families that were already struggling. Nearly one-quarter of Canadians report going hungry due to costs, and two million children across the country are now at risk of going to school hungry. In the last election, both the Liberal Party and the NDP pledged to invest $1 billion to establish a national school nutritious meal program, so that no child is forced to struggle through the day on an empty stomach.

Can you confirm when this funding will be in place?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I'm sorry, Mr. Davies. I heard one-third of your question. I think you spoke about the school nutrition program.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Yes, and the $1-billion pledge in the Liberal platform, and the NDP's. I know that money is not in the supplementary estimates or the budget. When will that money be expended?

I think they have frozen.

Mr. Chair, I hope my time has been frozen.