Health Committee on June 15th, 2022

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Hello, Mr. Casey. It's great to see you too.

Madam Jeffrey, you were just mentioning the B.C. agreement. Of course, that's top of mind for me as a British Columbian MP.

Do you think 2.5 grams of fentanyl is an amount used for personal use, or is that an amount that someone would use for trafficking?

[Heather Jeffrey]

The 2.5-gram exemption is what law enforcement has indicated is a majority level of drugs seized. Around 85% of drug seizures are at a level below 2.5 grams. Most of those drugs are mixed. As the minister indicated, pure fentanyl in those quantities is not a substance that would be used for personal possession.

The exemption process and the exemption itself provide clear authority for law enforcement to take action wherever trafficking is suspected, and certainly that level of possession would indicate trafficking. In no way does the exemption fetter the discretion of—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

Did B.C. law enforcement specifically ask for a 2.5-gram exemption for fentanyl?

[Heather Jeffrey]

The proposal from British Columbia was the result of consultations at a table that involved all stakeholders, including law enforcement. The—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Health Canada didn't specifically undertake consultations with B.C. law enforcement before approving the exemption, though.

[Heather Jeffrey]

Health Canada considers the exemption proposal that is presented to it by the provinces. We evaluate it from a public safety and public health approach, according to our responsibilities under the act.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

The act made specific reference that these exemptions wouldn't apply on school grounds. Do you believe law enforcement currently has the ability in British Columbia to enforce an exemption on school properties?

[Heather Jeffrey]

There's a period of coming into force. The exemption will not come into force until the end of January 2023. The intervening period is a period of intensive work. We'll be accompanying the Province of B.C. in this process. One of the main areas of work is provision of guidance and training to law enforcement. They are actively engaged in this process.

I will maybe turn to Jennifer Saxe, who is the director general of the program, to speak a bit about the consultation.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I don't have time. I have only three minutes.

Do you believe the decriminalization of fentanyl will save lives?

[Heather Jeffrey]

Our strategy to address the opioid crisis has a wide tool kit that involves quite a number of different tools. Decriminalization is one of those tools in reducing stigma. Decriminalization has been shown in different jurisdictions to encourage people suffering from addictions to come forward and—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Have there been other jurisdictions that have actually decriminalized fentanyl and seen that more lives were saved?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Vis, I just want to let you know that is your three minutes. You can work it out with Ms. Goodridge on whether you want a response.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Casey. It's good to see you again, my friend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Goodridge, we have about two more minutes before seven o'clock.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I will just let Ms. Jeffrey answer, if she could, the question from Mr. Vis.

[Heather Jeffrey]

There are a variety of different approaches that have been taken in different jurisdictions, and the types of substances that are included by jurisdictions reflect the use patterns that they see in their jurisdictions. The inclusion of fentanyl as part of the drug supply in Canada and in North America in general is what makes our drug supply so toxic, and what makes it so deadly to Canadians. For that reason, in order to reduce stigma, British Columbia included it as one of the four categories of substances in its exemption proposal. It reflects the usage.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

I guess the short answer to that, for anyone who is listening at home, is no.

With that I would like to move a motion based on some of what we have heard in our discussions. The motion is as follows:

That the committee request the following documents: Drugs approved in British Columbia under the pilot project exemption and why, and choices of substances to be decriminalized and justification for the choice and its amounts; and that the department provide these documents within 30 days of the approval of this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

The motion is in order, but we will no longer have supports at this point in time. I would like to do two things. I would like to look to the witness to see whether this is something that you haven't had any problem to produce, which might short-circuit it, and then I'll come back to the committee.

Ms. Jeffrey, you heard the motion. Is that something you're able to get your hands on and that you're able to produce for the committee?

[Heather Jeffrey]

Yes, we can provide the list of substances in the B.C. exemption and the rationale that B.C. provided us for its request and its application.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Can we have a quick vote on this?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

No, we can't have a quick vote, unless there's nobody who wants to speak to it.

The motion is in order. You heard from the department that they're able to produce the information.

The debate is on the motion. Is there any discussion on the motion?

Seeing none, are we ready for the question? Do we have consensus to have the department produce the information requested?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

(Motion agreed to)

I see consensus, so the motion is adopted. I would now like to entertain a motion to adjourn. Is it the will of the committee to adjourn?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.