Health Committee on June 15th, 2022

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

Can you elaborate a bit on when you have or are expecting applications from municipalities and how that will actually work in practice—particularly as we gain experience from the B.C. example—when it's not the entire jurisdiction, the province or the territory, that is actually pursuing the request?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

What we will learn is that because of the B.C. exemption, because people have already seen what a successful application looks like, they will be able to move more quickly on the kinds of criteria we've been looking at in terms of diversion to health and social services. It's also ramping up those health and social services, though, to make sure they can address the needs and are able to engage with stakeholders and people with living experience. For law enforcement and business, it's to make sure that consultation is ongoing, with public education and law enforcement training, but it's mainly a process for the research and evaluation, to see what's working and whether any application needs to be adapted to get better results.

I think that now that people see what it took to get the B.C. exemption approved, it will really help the other jurisdictions. Obviously, things like law enforcement training would be individual in a jurisdiction. The four drugs in B.C. may not be the drugs that another jurisdiction would want to have the personal exemption for, but I think as we work together—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Minister, if we're going to give Mr. Morrice a chance, this is the time.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Yes. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Go ahead, Mr. Morrice, and welcome to the committee.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Mr. Hanley.

Thank you, Minister Bennett, for being here.

Many parliamentarians talk about how mental health is health. I think it's really critical we ensure we follow through on that. In my community, for example, it is a struggle. The connection between housing and mental health is leaving many behind. I turn to organizations like the Canadian Alliance on Mental Illness and Mental Health, the national voice for mental health across the country. It's a member-driven alliance of 16 mental health groups. When they talk about the kind of funding we need, they look to the Royal Society of Canada, which is talking about 12% of health care funding going towards mental health.

Minister Bennett, can you comment on whether you agree with the need for parity in funding on mental health, on whether that 12% amount is the amount you're also striving towards, and the actions you are taking to get us there?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I think, Mike, what you're saying is so important, because there's a difference between health and health care. There is a difference between prevention and health promotion, but also the health and social services that keep people well. Whether it's supportive housing.... What do we count? In the approaches of the provinces and territories, they know they need that social housing the Canadian Mental Health Association has been helping to design, the kinds of things that Minister Hussen is doing in rapid housing.

Do communities have those wraparound health and social services that allow the federal government to buy the building? When we think of the expenditures on keeping people well, not just patching them up when they get sick, I think we see that dealing with poverty, violence, the environment, shelter, equity and education are all part of keeping people well.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Is there time for a brief follow-up?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

No. We're past time.

Mr. Garon, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being with us today. We really appreciate it.

Madam Minister, on March 10, 2017, Quebec signed an asymmetrical agreement building on the 2014 agreement, which is based on asymmetrical federalism respecting Quebec's jurisdictions. The implementation agreement of the 2017 accord includes a component on home and community care services as well as mental health and addiction services. This agreement expired on March 31, 2022.

During the election campaign, Mr. Trudeau promised to add $4.5 billion to these bilateral agreements over five years. Of course, the Bloc Québécois and the Quebec government opposed this.

We are now in the first year of your mandate and the budget has been tabled.

Where is the $4.5 billion in the budget?

Where are you in terms of getting that money out?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Our government has also promised to provide Quebec and other provinces and territories with new funding targeting virtual care and long-term care security. This is in addition to the Canada Health Transfer, which will bring more than $10.1 billion to Quebec...

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Minister, where in the budget is the $4.5 billion over five years that was supposed to be added to these recently expired bilateral agreements?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

In terms of the transfer to Quebec, I think the government had budgeted $5 billion for the 2017-18 fiscal year.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

It is 2022, Madam Minister.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

For Quebec, for the 2022-23 fiscal year, it's 134.99 under the original bilateral agreement. The provinces and territories are currently working together on the issue of a future mental health transfer.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

So I understand that the amounts are not in the budget.

Thank you very much, Minister.

According to what is in the 2022 budget, “The government also intends to engage with provinces and territories to inform the development of a new Canada Mental Health Transfer [...]”

Where are the negotiations on this? We hear very little about it.

Have your representatives met with the Quebec government?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

I had a good discussion with Minister Lionel Carmant from Quebec. This is a very important issue. Last week, I also had discussions with Ms. Martinez Ferrada as well as with representatives of organizations that work in the field of addiction and social services.

It's very important to start from the ground up in order to build a mental health plan and address the real issues on the ground.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

I am glad to hear you say that. However, you talked, particularly in your opening remarks, about transparency, accountability, national standards, indicators, a national indicator, and the Standards Council of Canada.

What do you make of the notion of unconditionality, Madam Minister?

Do you know that health is not part of your jurisdiction?

Do you know that Quebec and the nine provinces are asking for an unconditional increase in the Canada health transfer?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

We think it's very important to have a better understanding that health is a shared domain. Health services are really within the jurisdiction of the provinces and territories. The province of Quebec—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Minister, the federal government has made this a shared domain over time by using the federal spending power. That is not at all in the letter or the spirit of the Constitution.

You spoke earlier—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Yes, but—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I would ask you to let me finish. It is my turn to ask the questions, Madam Minister.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Health services are a provincial responsibility.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Minister, if I may, I would like to ask you a question.

You spoke earlier about federal funds that have been spent to date on setting national standards.

What are the costs associated with setting national standards, to date?

How much money have you spent on this?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

We spent $45 million, but it was done with the support of the provinces.