Health Committee on June 20th, 2022

[Dr. Guillaume Poliquin]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With regard to the variants, we note that SARS‑CoV‑2, the virus that causes COVID‑19, continues to evolve. It is not really possible to predict how it will evolve in the short and long term.

We have however developed our genomics capacity and, together with our science experts and academics, we have a network to study the variants, to understand their potential impact as quickly as possible and, to advise our public health colleagues on the measures to be taken or planned.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Dr. Poliquin and Mr. Garon.

We'll have Mr. Bachrach, please, for six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start by thanking all of our witnesses for their work over the past years in what have been some pretty extraordinary circumstances for our country.

I'd like to pick up where my colleague, Mr. Garon, left off on talking about the travel mandates. This issue has affected a lot of people in the riding I represent. I know that several of those measures have since been lifted, but at the same time, people are frustrated by the lack of explanation as to what the criteria were and how the decision-making process worked.

I'd like to start by going back to earlier in the pandemic when the vaccine became widely available and the government chose to put the vaccine mandate for domestic travel in place. These were rules that prevented unvaccinated people from travelling on airplanes and trains within the country.

Ms. Thompson, could you speak to how those rules were designed to work? I'm trying to get at the heart of this. What is the mechanism or what was the specific risk that was being managed when those rules were first brought in?

[Kathy Thompson]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

With respect to vaccine mandates, the national and also global epidemiological situation was very different from what we have today. Modelling showed the possibility of strong resurgence. We were in between alpha and delta variants.

While we did have a high vaccination rate even back then, there were pockets and subpopulations that were not vaccinated, including younger individuals. At that time, the government made the decision to increase the uptake of vaccines with the vaccine mandate to offer some additional protection and ensure that there was additional protection through the vaccine mandates at the time, particularly with respect to travel and small conveyances.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Can I take it, from your response, Ms. Thompson, that the key objective of the vaccine mandate for domestic travel was to encourage Canadians to get vaccinated, as opposed to preventing transmission in a travel environment?

[Kathy Thompson]

It was certainly to encourage vaccination, but at the time we were also looking to protect Canadians from COVID-19, severe illness and hospitalization. There was very strong evidence to show that the vaccines were very effective for all of those risks that we were facing at the time.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Can I take from your response that reducing transmission in a travel environment, that is, on an airplane or on a train, was not one of the original objectives of the vaccine mandate for travel?

[Kathy Thompson]

The objective of all of the measures that are in place is really to protect Canadians and the health of Canadians, and, in particular, people who are vulnerable and immunocompromised. That is the first objective in all of these measures in addition to promoting vaccines, because we had very good evidence that vaccines were very effective, particularly against alpha and delta, and because we knew that there were some regions of the country and some populations where we didn't have the protection that we were looking for and that was necessary.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I have to say, Ms. Thompson, I'm frustrated at the generality of your responses. I think what Canadians are looking for is a very specific explanation of how these rules work, and that is what we've been failing to get for so many months now. It's incredibly frustrating.

I'm a layperson. I'm not an epidemiologist. I'm not a health professional of any kind. I studied glaciers in university, but I feel like I should be able to understand what we're trying to do with these rules, and the explanation is not making sense. Can you try again to tell us how keeping people off of airplanes and off of trains very specifically protected them or protected the people around them?

I'm failing to see it. I thought I understood the mechanism, which was, if you are unvaccinated and carrying the virus, there is less chance of you transmitting it to people around you. I think that's how most Canadians understood those rules to work. In addition, there is this piece around trying to convince people to get vaccinated. However, the piece around transmission is particularly interesting because of what we've been told about how the virus evolved and the changing impact on transmission.

I'm looking for something here, because I'm not clear on how these rules were supposed to work.

[Kathy Thompson]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Certainly we want to be as clear as we can with Canadians. Dr. Tam always makes sure, during her briefings, that she communicates to Canadians what the situation is in Canada, as well as do other departments that have imposed measures, whether it's Transport Canada for a domestic vaccine for federally regulated sectors, or the Treasury Board for the public service.

With respect to the federally regulated sector, as I indicated, there was strong evidence from international and domestic sources to conclude that vaccines were very effective at preventing infection and, consequently, transmission of the COVID-19 variants that were circulating at the time, namely alpha and delta, and protecting against severe illness and hospitalization and death. That is one of the reasons why we were indicating that the evidence was there to support a vaccine mandate at the time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Thompson.

You're past time, Mr. Bachrach, but you will get another turn.

Ms. Goodridge, go ahead, please, for five minutes.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all the witnesses.

Ms. Thompson, my question is a little bit along the same vein. Earlier in your testimony, you were talking about how, under alpha and delta, in terms of the transmission of the virus, there were studies to show that it was less so with those who were vaccinated, but then you said that things changed with omicron.

As we know, omicron became the variant that was probably dominate in and around December and January. Was the interest in keeping the federal vaccine mandates for travel in place from January onwards mostly about trying to get more people vaccinated?

[Kathy Thompson]

We were facing a very strong resurgence. The science was still emerging with respect to omicron. Although it happens very quickly in pandemic time, it still takes a while for the pandemic science to emerge on the effectiveness of vaccines against certain variants and to understand how a particular variant is presenting.

In terms of the omicron surge, there was evidence to support that we were in a surge—it was happening not only in Canada but globally as well—and that we should be maintaining efforts to encourage individuals to be as protected as possible from the vaccination perspective, as well as through personal protection measures—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

All right. Thanks, Ms. Thompson.

Unfortunately, we don't have much time, so my question becomes.... It's relatively clear.

At a certain point, it became pretty clear to Canadians and to science around the world that the vaccines did not change whether people could get or transmit the omicron variant. Our Prime Minister has now been infected with the omicron variant for the second time in about six months.

Was our keeping vaccine mandates in place in Canada for federal travel done in order to encourage more people to get vaccinated? A simple yes or no would be great.

[Kathy Thompson]

It was, as I indicated, to ensure that Canadians had the protection during this latest wave of COVID.

We know that the effectiveness was demonstrated through studies to still be present, even during the omicron wave. Yes, it wanes over time—probably more quickly than with delta—but it still prevents transmission.

I'll see if Mr. Bent wants to add anything.

[Stephen Bent]

Thank you.

I would add that, as it was stated earlier, two doses of vaccine still offer considerable protection in terms of severe disease. Fundamentally, in the context of our objective of reducing hospitalizations, severe illness and death, two doses perform well.

We know, as well, that three doses perform better, and that's why we're encouraging Canadians to get their booster.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

As a follow-up, was keeping federal mandates and restrictions a way of encouraging more Canadians to get vaccinated—yes or no?

[Stephen Bent]

I would offer that we've consistently communicated to Canadians that vaccination is one of the most important measures to protect themselves and to protect others.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

One of the complicated pieces around all of these vaccine mandates is that there has been so much politicization. A lot of Canadians have lost trust. They don't understand what is different today compared with yesterday in terms of being able to get on a plane. What magically changed so that now, today, it is safe, whereas yesterday it was unsafe?

You have a whole amount of fear. There hasn't been a lot of communication with the general public, who perhaps thought that those mandates were in place for some specific reason. We don't have any answers about metrics for why these mandates were kept in place for as long as they were.

We didn't follow any of our G7 partners. While travel and so much is a global phenomenon, Canada stayed on its own, keeping a very different.... We were out of step with our U.S. partners. We were out of step with our European partners. We were out of step with just about everyone in the world. Now, Canadians who believed that Canada was doing this...they're confused as to how, somehow, it's now safe.

What would you tell those Canadians about why there was an overnight change in these mandates and restrictions?

[Kathy Thompson]

I would assure Canadians that this is based on the data and the engagement with experts. As I said earlier, we are constantly engaging with experts on the world stage and nationally. We're engaging with provinces and territories—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Ms. Thompson, what data and which experts are you referring to?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

That's your time. Thank you, Ms. Goodridge.

We'll have Ms. Shanahan for five minutes.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

I too would like to thank the witnesses for being here today.

This is my first appearance at the health committee. I'd like to ask questions that I know are top of mind for residents in my riding.

First of all, there's monkeypox. Over the past couple of weeks, we've seen an increase in cases. I know that it's very concerning in Montreal. As well, in Quebec we've seen some cases on the rise. Can you tell us what the agency is doing to actively work with public health partners to investigate reports of suspect cases of monkeypox in Canada?

[Kathy Thompson]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the question. I will ask Dr. Poliquin to respond to that.

[Dr. Guillaume Poliquin]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to reassure Canadians that the Public Health Agency of Canada is taking the monkeypox situation extremely seriously. We have had a number of concrete actions with respect to monkeypox.

First, following the international reports from the U.K. on May 17, the national microbiology laboratory relaxed instantly its criteria for testing to remove the need for travel to make sure that all Canadians were able to access the testing they needed. In addition, there was an emergency meeting of the Canadian Public Health Laboratory Network on May 19, prior to the confirmation of the first two Canadian cases, to ensure there was readiness on the laboratory side.

In addition, we have been working hand in glove with our provincial and territorial partners to provide guidance. Within eight days of the first cases being detected in Canada, we issued guidance on the prevention of infection, as well as recommendations to prevent spread. Through the national emergency stockpile, we have made available vaccinations—third-generation vaccines intended for smallpox but also with an indication for monkeypox—for a targeted vaccination campaign to help reach those most at risk.

In addition, ongoing communication has been occurring both through provincial health authorities and through a number of community organizations in order to ensure that messaging is out but respectful, so that we do not enter into an area of engendering unnecessary stigma. The Public Health Agency stands firmly against stigma generation. As such, our communications strategy has been very mindful both to reassure Canadians and to also get the message out to those who need to hear it.